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 Post subject: Re: Primer Shortage
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:59 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:17 am
Posts: 677
Here's an article quoting Vista:
https://gunandsurvival.com/2020/11/12/r ... e-than-1b/
The gist of it is that Vista has a 1Billion dollar backlog for ammunition. They believe it will be a year before they are caught up. If that is true, then reloaders are in for a rough patch, for sure, as powder, primer and projectile capacity wlll be going to factory loaded ammo.




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 Post subject: Re: Primer Shortage
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:42 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:33 am
Posts: 1421
Location: northern Oklahoma
Wonder if joe and the ho will do what they can to ban or make ammunition harder to get "if" they are crowned the new king and kingette? Vista might want to keep all that new machinery running 24/7 and sell, sell, sell before the brakes get put on. Interesting times ahead for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Primer Shortage
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:15 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:46 pm
Posts: 49
I found a small shop that had 8000 Winchester 209s for 29.95$ a thousand. I asked if there were a limit on how many I could buy said no, well I did good.


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 Post subject: Re: Primer Shortage
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:33 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:52 pm
Posts: 5290
Location: Miami Florida and The Republic of Panama
During the previous primer shortage 10 or so years ago European primers came
in to fill the void. Where is Nobel Sport, Fiocchi, Rio and Cheddite now?

cdb1097 wrote:
Ballistic products has Cheddite primers in stock, I don't need any so I didn't order any.



cdb


Out of Stock. All the others as well too.

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 Post subject: Re: Primer Shortage
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:47 pm 
Tournament Grade
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:11 pm
Posts: 103
Jaspo01 wrote:
During the previous primer shortage 10 or so years ago European primers came
in to fill the void. Where is Nobel Sport, Fiocchi, Rio and Cheddite now?

cdb1097 wrote:
Ballistic products has Cheddite primers in stock, I don't need any so I didn't order any.



cdb


Out of Stock. All the others as well too.


Ballistic Products also had Fiocchi primers in stock a couple of days ago. I was able to pick up 30,000. Price including their ridiculous Hazmat fee and shipping came out to $34 per 1000. They sold out after 2 days.

Midway USA had Winchester primers in stock about 10 days ago and then sold out quickly, then again 2 days ago they had more, and I know several guys that were able to order the 20,000 limit including my brother. They sold out within 24 hours.

Primers are showing up sporadically, you just have to be "Johnny on the spot" to pick them up.


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 Post subject: Re: Primer Shortage
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:37 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:02 pm
Posts: 195
Quote:
I was able to pick up 30,000.


Quote:
I know several guys that were able to order the 20,000 limit


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 Post subject: Re: Primer Shortage
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:20 am 
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Posts: 21248
Location: Just South of Indiana Gun Club!
J.Fred_Muggs wrote:
Quote:
I was able to pick up 30,000.


Quote:
I know several guys that were able to order the 20,000 limit



And you wonder why there are no primers available :?: Here is your answer :!: :!:



cdb

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 Post subject: Re: Primer Shortage
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:31 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:04 pm
Posts: 476
Without putting too fine a point on it, maybe part of why there's a primer shortage is that people are buying 20 and 30,000 at once. That's gotta be a couple year's worth.


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 Post subject: Re: Primer Shortage
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:36 am 
Tournament Grade
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:11 pm
Posts: 103
cdb1097 wrote:
J.Fred_Muggs wrote:
Quote:
I was able to pick up 30,000.


Quote:
I know several guys that were able to order the 20,000 limit



And you wonder why there are no primers available :?: Here is your answer :!: :!:



cdb


The way I see it is now all the guys looking for primers have 1 less person to compete against for a while. I'm sure down the road I'll be kicking myself for not buying 60,000 when I had the chance at that price. I'm already doing that with rifle primers, which are now selling for 3-4 times what they were a year ago when there was an abundance.


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 Post subject: Re: Primer Shortage
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:34 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:33 am
Posts: 1421
Location: northern Oklahoma
Win50 wrote:
Without putting too fine a point on it, maybe part of why there's a primer shortage is that people are buying 20 and 30,000 at once. That's gotta be a couple year's worth.

That's the ONLY way to buy them if buying them online, so the hazmat don't rip ya a new one.


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 Post subject: Re: Primer Shortage
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:01 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:02 pm
Posts: 195
It is my understanding that it is difficult to quickly ramp-up primer production.


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 Post subject: Re: Primer Shortage
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:17 am 
Tournament Grade
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:11 pm
Posts: 103
Article by Powder Valley: https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/why-is- ... -shortage/

During the last big primer shortage Russian and European primer companies bumped up production and eased the crisis, but not seeing that this time.

This year was the perfect storm: Remington going under, Covid shutting down plants, and the liberal threat increasing ammo sales.

oldtechshooter wrote:
Win50 wrote:
Without putting too fine a point on it, maybe part of why there's a primer shortage is that people are buying 20 and 30,000 at once. That's gotta be a couple year's worth.

That's the ONLY way to buy them if buying them online, so the hazmat don't rip ya a new one.


Amen. Especially when companies like Ballistic Products charges a $37 hazmat fee per package.


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 Post subject: Re: Primer Shortage
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:55 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:52 am
Posts: 459
Location: Eastern Kentucky
Where does the HAZMAT fee go? To shipping company? Just another tax the seller pockets? Why is it not a uniform amount? Why is it sometime free or discounted? Is it just like all the extra charges on my cable bill? And most of all why did it just increase?


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 Post subject: Re: Primer Shortage
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:16 am 
Diamond Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:51 pm
Posts: 1843
Location: S.E. Wisconsin
kyskeet wrote:
Where does the HAZMAT fee go? To shipping company? Just another tax the seller pockets? Why is it not a uniform amount? Why is it sometime free or discounted? Is it just like all the extra charges on my cable bill? And most of all why did it just increase?


“Hazmat fees” are a charge that customers pay to help a hazmat-related company cover costs related to their compliance with hazmat safety standards. Customers do not pay for the entirety of those costs. The fee is intended to help the company offset those expenses by sharing them with their customers.

Some of which are,

US Department of Energy Reporting

CT Office of Policy and Management Reporting

New NFPA 58 Employee Training Requirements

OSHA compliance,

New Right to Know laws

Tier II reporting

Increased Truck Maintenance Programs

Hazardous Material regulations

Commercial Driver Rules

Certified Employee Training

Gas Check Training

Federal Pipeline Safety Regulation-DPUC compliance

Underwriting Insurance Requirements

New Homeland Security Planning and training post 9/11

All of the above was found with a Google search.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Primer Shortage
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:32 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:34 am
Posts: 186
kyskeet wrote:
Where does the HAZMAT fee go? To shipping company? Just another tax the seller pockets? Why is it not a uniform amount? Why is it sometime free or discounted? Is it just like all the extra charges on my cable bill? And most of all why did it just increase?


Interesting question. I've also wondered about who gets the hazmat fee. I just assumed the carrier is charging the hazmat fee. I checked on the UPS website and found that they don't charge any extra fee for shipping ammunition. Here is a quote from that website:

Will I Pay An Additional Fee For Shipping Cartridges, Small Arms?
When shipping Limited Quantities of hazardous materials by UPS Ground within the 48 contiguous states, UPS Ground Intra-Oahu or Intra-Alaska, only the standard shipping charges apply. There are no "accessorial" or additional charges.

It would seem, based on this statement, that the seller is adding the hazmat charge. Here's the link to the UPS website:

https://www.ups.com/us/en/help-center/p ... ition.page


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 Post subject: Re: Primer Shortage
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 2:04 pm 
Diamond Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:51 pm
Posts: 1843
Location: S.E. Wisconsin
Luke485 wrote:
Will I Pay An Additional Fee For Shipping Cartridges, Small Arms?
When shipping Limited Quantities of hazardous materials by UPS Ground within the 48 contiguous states, UPS Ground Intra-Oahu or Intra-Alaska, only the standard shipping charges apply. There are no "accessorial" or additional charges.

It would seem, based on this statement, that the seller is adding the hazmat charge. Here's the link to the UPS website:


All carriers have to deal with Hazmat regulations and the training and paper work that goes with it.
To me it sounds like UPS is spreading those costs to all of their shippers, not just the ones that require it.

Steve

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I repair MEC presses. PM me.
Used to be Steve Y


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 Post subject: Re: Primer Shortage
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 2:12 pm 
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Which is the right thing to do as it’s an overhead cost; the cost of doing business

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 Post subject: Re: Primer Shortage
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 2:58 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:08 am
Posts: 2338
Location: Central NH
Luke485 wrote:
kyskeet wrote:
Where does the HAZMAT fee go? To shipping company? Just another tax the seller pockets? Why is it not a uniform amount? Why is it sometime free or discounted? Is it just like all the extra charges on my cable bill? And most of all why did it just increase?


Interesting question. I've also wondered about who gets the hazmat fee. I just assumed the carrier is charging the hazmat fee. I checked on the UPS website and found that they don't charge any extra fee for shipping ammunition. Here is a quote from that website:

Will I Pay An Additional Fee For Shipping Cartridges, Small Arms?
When shipping Limited Quantities of hazardous materials by UPS Ground within the 48 contiguous states, UPS Ground Intra-Oahu or Intra-Alaska, only the standard shipping charges apply. There are no "accessorial" or additional charges.

It would seem, based on this statement, that the seller is adding the hazmat charge. Here's the link to the UPS website:

https://www.ups.com/us/en/help-center/p ... ition.page

There is no hazmat on loaded ammo, or pre-primed hulls.

Powder, and bulk primers, are charged hazmat.


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 Post subject: Re: Primer Shortage
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:07 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:34 am
Posts: 186
YevetS wrote:
Luke485 wrote:
Will I Pay An Additional Fee For Shipping Cartridges, Small Arms?
When shipping Limited Quantities of hazardous materials by UPS Ground within the 48 contiguous states, UPS Ground Intra-Oahu or Intra-Alaska, only the standard shipping charges apply. There are no "accessorial" or additional charges.

It would seem, based on this statement, that the seller is adding the hazmat charge. Here's the link to the UPS website:


All carriers have to deal with Hazmat regulations and the training and paper work that goes with it.
To me it sounds like UPS is spreading those costs to all of their shippers, not just the ones that require it.

Steve


The point that I got from reading the above question and answer from the UPS website is that UPS does not charge a hazmat fee. "Standard shipping charges apply" seems pretty clear to me. As long as the package has a hazmat label on it, UPS will ship it for the normal charge via ground in the 48 contiguous states. Am I missing something?


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 Post subject: Re: Primer Shortage
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:37 pm 
Diamond Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:51 pm
Posts: 1843
Location: S.E. Wisconsin
Luke485 wrote:
The point that I got from reading the above question and answer from the UPS website is that UPS does not charge a hazmat fee. "Standard shipping charges apply" seems pretty clear to me. As long as the package has a hazmat label on it, UPS will ship it for the normal charge via ground in the 48 contiguous states. Am I missing something?


IMHO you are missing that UPS just "buries" the hazmat fee in their "normal" shipping charges and does not make it a line item by itself. Therefore when you order a book or puzzle from Amazon and UPS is the carrier you pay a small portion of their hazmat costs.

Steve



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