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 Post subject: New to reloading shot shells. Recipe question.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:14 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:29 am
Posts: 216
Data from the Clay Busters CB0175-12 3/4 ounce Wads.

Federal Gold Medal Plastic Hulls
15.5 gr. Red Dot-Federal 209A Primers-1200 FPS-Pressure 5500

Would it change it that much if I used Win 209 Primers instead of the Fed 209A?

Thanks for the help.

PS: I am not new to reloading. I have loaded thousands and thousands of rounds of pistol ammo. I know using magnum pistol primers instead of regular pistol primers that it only changed it a few FPS, don't know about pressure change but from looking at the spent primer it didn't look over pressured.




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 Post subject: Re: New to reloading shot shells. Recipe question.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:35 am 
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That's already an anemic load, and switching to a milder primer may make it worse. You certainly won't have any safety issues, so load a few and try them.

I'm not a fan of using tapered wads in a straightwalled case. That's another reason this load could be pooky.


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 Post subject: Re: New to reloading shot shells. Recipe question.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:22 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:29 am
Posts: 216
Thanks a lot


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 Post subject: Re: New to reloading shot shells. Recipe question.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:29 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:14 am
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Location: Ontario, NY
Sandrooney,

See if you can find some Remington Gun Clubs, Clay 'n Field, STS's or Nitro Golds.

Gun Clubs are pretty easy to find and those CB wads are more suited for those tapered wall hulls as Shoot2Reload pointed out.

And as S2R suggests, load some up and shoot 'em and see how they do.


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 Post subject: Re: New to reloading shot shells. Recipe question.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:29 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:29 am
Posts: 216
Thanks JB, but I just acquired 2000 once fired FGM and would like to use them. I have a friend that will give me a couple hundred Rem STS's so I think I will load some of each up and see what happens. I have some Fed 209A primers (only 700) and all I can find right now is Win 209. If I use the Win 209 should I beef up the powder charge a little, say 0.5gr?

This has nothing to do with the primers. The Data on the CB0175 shows the powder charge to be 0.5gr less for the Rem STS than for the FGM to achieve the same FPS, the pressure is a little higher with the STS at 5750 (5500 with the FGM) even though the charge is less. Do you think the extra 0.5gr in the FGM is to compensate for the wad? I could be way over thinking all of this, just want to get it as right as I can with what I have.
Thanks a lot
SR


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 Post subject: Re: New to reloading shot shells. Recipe question.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:17 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:11 am
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You are headed down a slippery slope.
Lesson one on reloading shotshells - use only published loads.
There is a lot of data out there - Lyman manuals, the powder manufacturer's on-line sites.
You have no way of evaluating pressure of a shotgun shell, unless you send your reloads to a testing facility like Precision Reloading.
It is not like pistol or rifle reloading where you can "read" pressure signs.


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 Post subject: Re: New to reloading shot shells. Recipe question.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:41 am 
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In shotgun reloading Primers can make a much bigger difference in pressures and performance than in metallic cartridge loading. Review the section in you Lyman manual on primers.

Bob

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 Post subject: Re: New to reloading shot shells. Recipe question.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:48 am 
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Are you safe in upping the powder charge? Well, in the strictest sense you are delving into uncharted territory, but perhaps not. Here's a nearly identical recipe for 7/8oz, and you're safe in going all the way to 19.0gr of Red Dot:

https://tinyurl.com/y6owowt5

You are using a milder primer, and you're dropping less shot.

With that said, I still believe you're polishing a turd. Use a wad for straightwalls (like the 12S0 or DRXXL Orange). There are plenty of Red Dot recipes for those on the Alliant website for 7/8oz...totally usable for 3/4oz.


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 Post subject: Re: New to reloading shot shells. Recipe question.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:38 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:29 am
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Thanks to all for the help. I have been to the Alliant site and it is very helpful. As far as I can tell they don't make a 3/4 ounce wad for straight wall cases. The CB0175 says Versatile for most hulls depending on powder charge. I will continue to read the Lyman Handbook. I am excited to get started but not in a hurry. I don't even have the press yet, I just ordered it. The only components I have so far is some Red Dot, some Fed 209a's, and the FGM cases. I have a couple flats of factory to shoot in the mean time.
Thanks again for all the help.


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 Post subject: Re: New to reloading shot shells. Recipe question.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:51 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:59 pm
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Federal Gold Medal Plastic Hulls
15.5 gr. Red Dot-Federal 209A Primers-1200 FPS-Pressure 5500

this just doesn't look right.
no pressure and still 1200 fps?
dropping to a Win primer will drop the pressure even more, and your already on the verge of not igniting all the powder now.


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 Post subject: Re: New to reloading shot shells. Recipe question.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:23 pm 
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I think Red Dot isn't the best powder for this load. Even in a STS hull and running a charge to get 1300fps, the pressure is only 6350

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 Post subject: Re: New to reloading shot shells. Recipe question.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:59 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:29 am
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That's the data from the CB.


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 Post subject: Re: New to reloading shot shells. Recipe question.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:15 pm 
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I know it is the data; I use the CB wads as well, but in STS hulls and have no issues with Extra Lite or Titewad.

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The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory, Aldo Gucci

Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience, George Carlin


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 Post subject: Re: New to reloading shot shells. Recipe question.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:04 pm 
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Trying to run what essentially is a 28 ga. load through a 12 ga. is, to put it mildly, shrinking the envelope. A 5500 psi load is plumbing the depths. Unless you are shooting a firearm that needs very low pressures, this is a load to avoid. I understand the OP is trying to use what he has, but some judgment needs to be exercised. Frankly, I don't know why CB would publish such a load and that they did so makes the rest of their data suspect.

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 Post subject: Re: New to reloading shot shells. Recipe question.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:14 pm 
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Nebs wrote:
Trying to run what essentially is a 28 ga. load through a 12 ga. is, to put it mildly, shrinking the envelope. A 5500 psi load is plumbing the depths. Unless you are shooting a firearm that needs very low pressures, this is a load to avoid. I understand the OP is trying to use what he has, but some judgment needs to be exercised. Frankly, I don't know why CB would publish such a load and that they did so makes the rest of their data suspect.

Using their data, I am getting exactly the velocity they stated - as verified over my chronograph; that is using both Titewad and now Extra-Lite.

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The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory, Aldo Gucci

Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience, George Carlin


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 Post subject: Re: New to reloading shot shells. Recipe question.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:24 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:59 pm
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but at what pressures?
there's 1200 fps and then there's 1200 fps at near 10-K.
one is just going to be that much better in the cold or closer to the numbers when it's hot or cold.


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 Post subject: Re: New to reloading shot shells. Recipe question.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:14 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:29 am
Posts: 216
What is a good pressure for a 12 gauge 3/4oz target load? There is a 3/4oz load that is 1300 FPS at 6200. I am also looking at a 7/8oz load that is 1196 FPS at 6500 and a 1oz load at 1200 FPS and 7500.
Thanks a lot
SR


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 Post subject: Re: New to reloading shot shells. Recipe question.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:14 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:49 pm
Posts: 285
I would suggest you try the load with Win209's and see how they work out for you. The GM cases are not the best option for what you want to do but they may work. As others have said taper wall cases(AA,STS,Gun Club) would be better. I have loaded many 3/4 oz. loads with Promo which is the Alliant clone of Red Dot with no problems.


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 Post subject: Re: New to reloading shot shells. Recipe question.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:33 am 
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saskbooknut wrote:
You are headed down a slippery slope.
Lesson one on reloading shotshells - use only published loads.
There is a lot of data out there - Lyman manuals, the powder manufacturer's on-line sites.
You have no way of evaluating pressure of a shotgun shell, unless you send your reloads to a testing facility like Precision Reloading.
It is not like pistol or rifle reloading where you can "read" pressure signs.


Plus one on the above.

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 Post subject: Re: New to reloading shot shells. Recipe question.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
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Well, that's not entirely true. There are pressure signs, sometimes. The problem is you can't depend on pressure signs to tell you if your loads are over pressure. When pressure signs show up, you are often way over pressure. 1400 psi is within SAAMI limits for some shotguns but way over MAX for others! Example: I loaded a non toxic shot that was advertised to use the same data as lead. There was no sign of excessive pressure. There was also no excessive recoil & it shot nice. I was still a little apprehensive so I sent the load off for testing. It was running a pressure of 1600+ psi with no sign of a problem! That taught me a lesson I will never forget! I knew better but did it anyway! That wasn't the first time an assumption resulted in over pressure that had potential to be catastrophic! I have also seen cratered & blown primers & case heads expanding & jamming in the chamber (other's chambers, not mine). It is the 8th. wonder of the world that some of my HS buddies are still alive! One carried a pair of pliers in his back pocket to pull stuck cases out of his SXS, presumably due to his over pressure reloads. He was the poster child for, "Some people shouldn't reload"!




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