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 Post subject: Wad and primer question??
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:28 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:29 am
Posts: 218
Load data out of the Lyman Handbook.

2 3/4 Federal Gold Medal case, 7/8oz, 17.5 Red Dot, Rem 209p, Win WAA12L wad, 1196 FPS, Pressure 6500.

Can I safely substitute Win 209 primer for the Rem 209p and Fed 12SO wad for the WAA12L wad?

Thanks a lot,
SR




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 Post subject: Re: Wad and primer question??
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:49 am 
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The link below takes you to the Alliant Reloading website.

As you can see the Alliant data uses the wad you are inquiring about and the hottest 209 size primer in the Federal 209A all while being at least 3,000 PSI under SAAMI maximum average pressure.

Reducing the powder drop by 1.5 grains and using the Winchester 209 powder will not be a problem.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/ ... 3&gauge=12


For a definitive answer right from the horse's mouth you might call Alliant directly.

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aka Mr. Tactful. Common sense no longer appears to be common.
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 Post subject: Re: Wad and primer question??
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:59 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:29 am
Posts: 218
Thanks a lot


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 Post subject: Re: Wad and primer question??
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:28 am 
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I have loaded a lot of the Gold Medal hulls using the Winchester primers and the 12SO wad. I however used a different powder (700X). You will find these hulls have a lot of volume and you will be fighting dished crimps. I had better luck using the 12S3 1 1/8 oz wads . I used the last of some Unique powder (23 grs) with that load and got perfect crimps.


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 Post subject: Re: Wad and primer question??
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:09 pm 
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wrfish,

Were you getting dished crimps with the 12S0, 1 oz. of shot and 700-X?

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Mark

aka Mr. Tactful. Common sense no longer appears to be common.
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 Post subject: Re: Wad and primer question??
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:04 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2015 6:59 pm
Posts: 52
You want to substitute the primer AND the wad? I would start fresh and check out the Alliant powder website. There is 7/8 oz, Federal Gold Medal, Red Dot, 12SO, Federal 209A data.


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 Post subject: Re: Wad and primer question??
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:49 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 1:25 pm
Posts: 378
Location: New Mexico
Quote:
Check out the Alliant powder website. There is 7/8 oz, Federal Gold Medal, Red Dot, 12SO, Federal 209A data.


A search for load data like that on Alliant returns for me, today:
Quote:
7/8 oz shot 1,250 FPS Fed 209A 19 gr Red Dot 12S0 or DRXXL Orange wad 7,900 psi


Going to 19.5 gr of Red Dot and keeping other components yields 1290 FPS and 8400 pressure.

Both of those are still mild loads. Maybe one of these will suit you. But you were starting out with too little powder for a full stackup or good performance.

Also be aware that Alliant when listing shotshell loading data really loves to match the primer and the hull to the same manufacturer - Federal in this case.

When starting to load shotshells, it is recommended to do NO substitutions until you understand how variable velocity and pressures are in shotshell load changes.

Good luck, garrisonjoe


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 Post subject: Re: Wad and primer question??
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:45 pm 
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While I agree you folks about component swapping, in this case, because you have two legit sources that basically agree on velocity and pressure there is no issue.

If you look at both the Lyman data and the Alliant data they agree. The only component that you are 'swapping' is the Winchester primer. That will not increase chamber pressure in this load by 4,000+ PSI.

For the most part 3/4 & 7/8 oz. 12 gauge target loads, in straight wall hulls, using the 12 gauge target powders that were designed for 1 1/8 oz. loads are never going to be an issue unless someone does something incredibly foolish. You almost can't put enough powder in one of these loads to get yourself into real trouble. Certainly 19.0 grains is still a reasonable load. 17.5 grains is what the OP asked about, is even more reasonable.

The OP posted here and asked, not that SGW is the definitive place to ask, but he did ask about what folks on SGW thought. He asked first......give him a break.

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 Post subject: Re: Wad and primer question??
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:00 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:32 am
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Location: NSW, Australia
x2 what Mark said.

And yes, you would be fine making those substitutions, and the Fed wad would probably be a better fit.


And to really check, send some loads off to be tested and then you will have comfort and proof that all is good.


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 Post subject: Re: Wad and primer question??
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:24 pm 
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[quote="dogchaser37"]wrfish,

Were you getting dished crimps with the 12S0, 1 oz. of shot and 700-X?[/quote
Yes. I did not spend a lot of time making adjustments since I was only loading a small batch. I resorted to adding a couple of cheerios before crimping. I don't like doing that but it worked.
I had better luck with this hull loading 1 1/8 oz.


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 Post subject: Re: Wad and primer question??
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:24 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:29 am
Posts: 218
Thanks for all the help


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 Post subject: Re: Wad and primer question??
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:15 am 
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wrfish,

Just in case you get another bunch of Federal GM or Grand hulls maybe this will help.

I have used two different loads using the components you have. One using 19.5 grains of 700-X and one using 18.5 grains of 700-X.

The 19.5 grain load has a flat crimp. The 18.5 grain load has a slightly dished crimp.

I took an idea from Republican and tried the CB6100-12 wad in place of the CB2100-12 wad. The CB6100-12 wad is more compliant and a bit longer than the CB2100-12 wad and the crimp is flat with 18.5 grains of 700-X.

The other part that has to happen is you need to drop a full 1 oz. of shot especially with the 18.5 grain load using the CB2100-12. That wad is not forgiving and the crimps will be very dished without the full payload of shot.

BTW the above works well in the Top Gun hull also. It is a load that has been in the Lyman shotshell manuals for years.



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Mark

aka Mr. Tactful. Common sense no longer appears to be common.
NSCA#544066


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