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 Post subject: AAHS Hull Separation
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:30 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 4:41 pm
Posts: 571
I had a Winchester AAHS 12 gauge hull separate the brass from the plastic.

The load was 18.0 grains of TiteWad, 1.0 ounce of #8, W209 primer, and CB1118-12 wad. That particular wad is actually intended for 1-1/8 ounce loads but I use it with 1.0 ounce loads because I get a better crimp due to the reduced capacity of the AAHS. I have shot thousands of this load.

When shooting Sporting Clays, I open the breech and catch the two empties, putting them in my pouch. I then load two from my shooting vest pocket and shoot the next pair. This time, one of the new shells would not chamber. Something was stuck in the forcing cone This turned out to be the plastic part of an AAHS. I never found the brass part. I suspect it fell out when I opened the breech.

The shot sounded normal. I think the separation occurred after pressure had left the barrel because there was no residue on the base of he plastic piece. From the condition of the petals, this hull could not hve been fired more than two or three times. It had the "AA" enclosed in a square on the side of the hull. I believe Curly cautioned a few weeks ago that hulls with this marking oould have a base wad separation. But in this case, the base wad was intact.

I believe that firing the gun did not force the plastic into the forcing cone. Rather I probably did this attempting to chamber the next shell, after the separation.

It is just barely possible that my chamber was slightly oversive. I was shooting my SKB SxS instead of my normal SC gun. In cleaning both, I noticed that the SKB seemedto have a bit less resistance to the rod with pathes. But all other shells functioned perfectly.

So what? So what should I do? Ignore the problem and consider it a fluke? Or something else.




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 Post subject: Re: AAHS Hull Separation
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:58 pm 
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IndyCA35 wrote:
The load was 18.0 grains of TiteWad, 1.0 ounce of #8, W209 primer, and CB1118-12 wad. That particular wad is actually intended for 1-1/8 ounce loads but I use it with 1.0 ounce loads because I get a better crimp due to the reduced capacity of the AAHS. I have shot thousands of this load.

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 Post subject: Re: AAHS Hull Separation
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:12 pm 
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I would say a fluke. This happened to me last year shooting sporting clays only I was shooting factory Gun Clubs. I was shooting a semi auto and this happened 3 or 4 times where the metal base separated from the plastic. It must have been a bad box. No harm was done and it was just this one time thing.


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 Post subject: Re: AAHS Hull Separation
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:50 pm 
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Curly N wrote:
IndyCA35 wrote:
The load was 18.0 grains of TiteWad, 1.0 ounce of #8, W209 primer, and CB1118-12 wad. That particular wad is actually intended for 1-1/8 ounce loads but I use it with 1.0 ounce loads because I get a better crimp due to the reduced capacity of the AAHS. I have shot thousands of this load.
This is a problem. Use of the 1 1/8 oz wad in the AAHS with 1 oz. of shot is recommended only when using bulky powder, such as Red Dot or Clays. Titewad is anything but bulky, it's very much on the dense side of the spectrum. Were you getting anything approaching dished crimps.

And Curly, did I see a very young Ronald Reagan in that Kate Smith video?

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 Post subject: Re: AAHS Hull Separation
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:12 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:22 pm
Posts: 283
Location: NE South Dakota
I don't know how dense Titewad is but it's about 4 bushings smaller for the same charge as red dot, but I have loaded thousands of the AAHS 12 gauge hull, at least 50 percent with the boxed AA on them, with that wad using waa12 data since it's the waa12 clone. 18 gr of red dot and W209 without any issue at all. Some hulls reloaded over 8 times before the petals just got too bad.

I would be curious if you might have a void under the gas seal given my experience with the same wad, bulkier powder and 1/8 oz more shot. Maybe that would explain some additional stress on the hull.

Your chamber explanation also makes sense.

I would also chalk it up as weird.


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 Post subject: Re: AAHS Hull Separation
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:03 am 
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I have had this happen one time with a 16 gauge WW Compression formed hull in a 1 1/8 ounce hunting load using Herco powder. I have used this load for more than 30 years and I attributed my failure to trying to load a hull too many times.


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 Post subject: Re: AAHS Hull Separation
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:52 am 
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If you haven't had a metal head on a shotshell come loose, it only means one thing. You haven't shot enough shotshells. (smiling)

I had it happen once in my Browning Sweet 16 (original design). That was about 1988 or so. I believe it was a Winchester CF high brass 16 gauge hull. I have never had it happen again. I have seen it happen to other folks on the skeet range.

It is more likely to occur in a repeater rather than a fixed breech shotgun.

It is not a problem with the load, the reloading machine or the person pulling the handle, it is just a bad hull where the metal head is not secured properly to the hull.

I wouldn't give it a second thought.

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 Post subject: Re: AAHS Hull Separation
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:48 am 
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Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
The only concern I see is if this could result in a barrel obstruction. You could make it a habit with a break open gun to look in the chambers while reloading but that is probably not going to happen when birds are flushing. I have a bunch of AA HS hulls that date back to the BW separation problem. I don't know if it could result in an obstruction. What precautions can you take?


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 Post subject: Re: AAHS Hull Separation
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:08 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:56 pm
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“It had AA enclosed in a square ...”. Aren’t these the first run of HS hulls? Single locking ring on base wad. You might need to look at your hulls to determine if they are the latest version of HS. Watched a Fabarms semi on my squad have at least 3 separations using well known Euro factory loads this summer at a 100 bird sporting shoot.


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 Post subject: Re: AAHS Hull Separation
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:11 pm 
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geometric,

With my Sweet 16 the metal head was ejected, the next round was fed and the whole thing stopped right there. The fired hull was pushed maybe 3/4" into the barrel. Even with the stout action spring of the Sweet forcing the bolt closed, the hull was too large in diameter for it to be stuffed into the bore of the barrel, by another round.

It is something to just forget about as it rarely happens and nothing really bad goes wrong when it does happen.....unless you have two roosters, begging to be doubled appear over your dog's point!!

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 Post subject: Re: AAHS Hull Separation
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:21 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 4:06 pm
Posts: 3686
I had a GC hull head separate from the hull about 2-weeks ago,on the sporting clays course,but the
shotgun cleaning tool,I have on my cart took care of that.Also,3-days ago on the clays course,one of our shooters had at least 10 or more W/W aa's CF factory shell's split on the brass,these were never
reloaded and he said they were at least 25-30 years old.One of the shells actually split right around the primer pocket,this was unique,to say the least,out of a box.


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 Post subject: Re: AAHS Hull Separation
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:05 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:04 pm
Posts: 856
Location: Eastern Ohio
creeker wrote:
I had a GC hull head separate from the hull about 2-weeks ago,on the sporting clays course,but the
shotgun cleaning tool,I have on my cart took care of that.Also,3-days ago on the clays course,one of our shooters had at least 10 or more W/W aa's CF factory shell's split on the brass,these were never
reloaded and he said they were at least 25-30 years old.One of the shells actually split right around the primer pocket,this was unique,to say the least,out of a box.


The last year or so of the Win AACF were junk.

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 Post subject: Re: AAHS Hull Separation
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:11 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 4:41 pm
Posts: 571
Guess I'll just ignoe it then. However, two comments:

Curley, Kate Smith was a great one. She would never make it today because she is not "beautiful" like the screeching sluts they have now. All she could do is sing and she got established in radio. When I was about 5, she was on a TV program and sang "When the Moon comes Over the Mountain" as the introduction.

Nebs, regarding Titewad and CB1118-12 wads, no Titewad is not bulky. But I do not get dished crimps. When I used CB1110-12 wads with 1.0 ounce of shot, however, I got tenting and flaring.

I do not have this problem with Gun Clubs and CB1110-12 wads. Incidentally, I consider Gun Clubs a much better hull for reloading than AAHS in 12 gauge.


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 Post subject: Re: AAHS Hull Separation
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:37 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:43 pm
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Location: PA Dutch Country
No real comment on the separation...sounds like a fluke.

Regarding Kate Smith, I grew up watching the flyers in the 80s and I have to admit I thought Kate Smith was Gene Hart's wife! Things cleared up later on when his daughter started doing the sing along.

I am appalled and ashamed by what happened last year.



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