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 Post subject: Help with 12 gauge loads using windjammer loads
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:30 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:52 am
Posts: 4
I have been loading both Winchester AA hulls and Remington Clay and field, Gun club, etc. using the same recipe: 17.5-18 grains Red Dot, Winchester 209 primer, figure 8 or Claybuster figure 8 clone and 1-1/8 oz #8 shot. I was just given a case of windjammer tournament wads. Alliant lists the same recipe using windjammer wads in AA hulls,(17.5 grains Red Dot only) but has no information using this combination in Remington hulls. Windjammer lists these components as a load in Remington RTL hulls (18 grains Red Dot).
I don't remember what a RTL hull is?
Would this load be safe in Remington Clay and field, Gun Club, Nitro etc.??
Alliant list a load of, 17.5 grains Red Dot, Windjammer wads, and Remington 209p primers, 1-1/8 oz shot with pressure of 8900 psi, or using CCI 209M primers with a pressure above 9000 psi.
I don't know if Winchester 209 primers are hotter than CCI 209M, or how they compare to Remington 209p primers.
Alliant won't give a yes or no when I contacted them.
Thanks for any help.




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 Post subject: Re: Help with 12 gauge loads using windjammer loads
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:02 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:43 am
Posts: 649
go on Alliants website and logon to Red dot recipes , scroll down to Windjammer wads in
a Rem Hull .


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 Post subject: Re: Help with 12 gauge loads using windjammer loads
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:06 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:59 pm
Posts: 1145
uhm yep.
Littlegirl has shot that load and pretty much only that load for about 20 years now.
we started in the premier hull, moved to the STS hulls back when they were everywhere, and have progressed to the gun clubs.
I substitute in the fig-8 wad in the HS AA hull and use 7-1/2's for handicap/dove/grouse shooting.

life is simple sometimes.


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 Post subject: Re: Help with 12 gauge loads using windjammer loads
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:17 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:52 am
Posts: 4
Alliant has no information on remington hulls with winchester primers and Windjammer wads. They list a load using Remington primers. I don't know if a switch from remington primers to winchester primers would cause excessive pressure.


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 Post subject: Re: Help with 12 gauge loads using windjammer loads
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:31 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:59 pm
Posts: 1145
no. well not enough to get worked up about with this load.
look at your pressures [in either hull with either primer] they ain't nowhere close to 10-K.


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 Post subject: Re: Help with 12 gauge loads using windjammer loads
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:17 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:58 pm
Posts: 19
I'm loading;

Rem Gun Club
WIN 209 Primer
18.1 Red Dot (MEC Bushing #31)
Windjammer WJI-12118 Wad
1 1/8 of 7.5

Have shot about 500 shells through both my Beretta 686 and Perazzi MX-2000 with no issues.


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 Post subject: Re: Help with 12 gauge loads using windjammer loads
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:54 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:56 pm
Posts: 7539
Location: Central ND
boatmanpaul,

The Remington RTL hull was the Premier hull which uses the same reloading data as the current Gun Club/STS/Nitro hulls.

_________________________________________

The 3 primers you are asking about mild to hot in this order.

Remington 209P(STS)
Winchester 209
CCI209M

This does not mean that the CCI209M primer will produce the most chamber pressure of the three primers 100% of the time. Which is why Alliant is reluctant to give a definitive answer, because there isn't one.

For this load I believe that all primers would be fine.

_________________
Mark

aka Mr. Tactful. Common sense no longer appears to be common.
NSCA#544066


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 Post subject: Re: Help with 12 gauge loads using windjammer loads
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:15 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
Posts: 5336
Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
You might also want to look at the data on the "Windjammer" website. It is in need of an update but still useful. The Win. AA hull & the Rem. one piece hulls are of the same type & produce similar ballistics with the AA HS hull producing slightly higher pressure in most cases where I have compared ballistics. Unless you are pushing the envelope, I don't think you are in danger by using AA data in the above referenced hulls. I use the same data with promo in both hulls with the Win. 209 primer. The WWAA wad is generally listed with a little more pressure than the same load with a Windjammer wad, which seems to indicate that a load that is listed for the WWAA wad is safe with a Windjammer wad. Please understand I am not telling anybody that is a safe thing to do. Always follow established, safe reloading practice!


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 Post subject: Re: Help with 12 gauge loads using windjammer loads
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:51 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:58 pm
Posts: 19
I use WIN209 primers, Alliant Red Dot and Windjammer wads but find both websites lacking in information when searching for various hulls brands. I had a guy tell me he uses 18.0 Red Dot, DR orange 8 pedal wads (windjammer wads) and WIN 209 primers and loads everything.

I try to stay with what I read on the various sites but sometimes that data is just not there for the components I'm using.


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 Post subject: Re: Help with 12 gauge loads using windjammer loads
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:25 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:52 am
Posts: 4
Thanks for all the help.
I try to stay with powder manufacturers recipes, but Alliant gives very few loads that use a primer of a different manufacturer than the hulls.
Hodgon is much better at listing various primer/hull combinations.
Alliant says that if pressure is between 6500 and 8500 psi a primer swap is allowed. They don't say a load is unsafe, just that they have no information on it.
50+ years ago, when I started reloading, many recipes didn't include primers, just brand of hull, powder, shot weight, and card wad, or dome wad over the powder. I seem to remember plastic dome and cork wads as what everyone was reloading.


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 Post subject: Re: Help with 12 gauge loads using windjammer loads
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:38 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 1:25 pm
Posts: 378
Location: New Mexico
Today's wider variety of primers that boost or reduce load pressures (relative to other primers) means you really should not load shotshells like you did 50+ years ago. Pay a little more attention to the currently published data.


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 Post subject: Re: Help with 12 gauge loads using windjammer loads
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:20 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:58 pm
Posts: 19
There are only a few brands of 209 primers;

CCI
Federal
Fiocchi
Winchester
Cheddite

When loading 18 Gr of powder for a practice 1 1/8 clay target load does the brand of the 209 primer really make that much of a difference?




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