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 Post subject: Primer fails to ignite powder. Why?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:47 pm 
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I have been rolling my own Bismuth loads lately. They are low pressure loads intended for vintage guns. Recently two roosters survived because when the trigger was pulled, there just a light "doink" and the shot never even left the barrel. Upon opening the gun, the barrel was plugged with the wad and after the hull with spent primer was removed, the powder fell back into the action preventing it from functioning until it has been cleaned.

My question is what could prevent the powder from igniting? The tempertures were warm both times (40s and 6os). The hulls are new Cheddites, primed at the factory. Powder is 28 grns of Hodgdon LongShot.

Any ideas?




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 Post subject: Re: Primer fails to ignite powder. Why?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:09 pm 
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What is the actual details of your recipe? Powder grains, wad shot weight.

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 Post subject: Re: Primer fails to ignite powder. Why?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:10 pm 
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Damp powder or a bad primer. The wad left the shell.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Primer fails to ignite powder. Why?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:13 pm 
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Hal4son wrote:
What is the actual details of your recipe? Powder grains, wad shot weight.


New Cheddite hull and primer, 28 gr Longshot, WAA12R substitute from Clay Busters, 16 gauge Circle Fly wad, 535 grs Bismuth #5, over shot wad, roll crimp.


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 Post subject: Re: Primer fails to ignite powder. Why?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:15 pm 
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Happened to a friend after a quail hunt where spent hulls and shot birds were in the same vest pouch.
His thought was that feathers in some subsequently reloaded hulls prevented the primer igniting the powder.

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 Post subject: Re: Primer fails to ignite powder. Why?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:19 pm 
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Slowpoke,
This particular shell went direct from a plastic ammo box to the chamber. No lounging around in my pockets. It was carried for maybe 40 minutes before I tried to fire it at a nice rooster in the last minute of the shooting day.


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 Post subject: Re: Primer fails to ignite powder. Why?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:24 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:51 pm
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Possibly a weak primer due to moisture or oil/debris in the hull before you loaded it. Always make sure your shells are DRY and CLEAN internally before reloading.

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 Post subject: Re: Primer fails to ignite powder. Why?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:25 pm 
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My initial thought is try a different lot of powder.

Did the powder get wet?

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 Post subject: Re: Primer fails to ignite powder. Why?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:28 pm 
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dogchaser37 wrote:
My initial thought is try a different lot of powder.

Did the powder get wet?


No the powder did not get wet, but it was not a new can. It was tightly capped in its plastic can.

Has anyone else had problems with virgin, primed Cheddites not igniting the powder?


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 Post subject: Re: Primer fails to ignite powder. Why?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:32 pm 
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Goldens Always wrote:
Hal4son wrote:
What is the actual details of your recipe? Powder grains, wad shot weight.


New Cheddite hull and primer, 28 gr Longshot, WAA12R substitute from Clay Busters, 16 gauge Circle Fly wad, 535 grs Bismuth #5, over shot wad, roll crimp.


Insufficient pressure for ignition. You are running 3.4 grains under the starting load on hodgdonreloading.com That load is only generating 7,200 psi.

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 Post subject: Re: Primer fails to ignite powder. Why?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:39 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 1:25 pm
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Location: New Mexico
Squibs possible causes:
light powder drop due to machine or technique - weigh every one for next 25 loads
borderline too-weak load - run published and tested data and actual components
contaminated powder - check for water or oil
crimp not formed well with recessed folds - adjust dies or tinker with load

Good luck, garrisonjoe


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 Post subject: Re: Primer fails to ignite powder. Why?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:47 pm 
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Hal4son wrote:
Goldens Always wrote:
Hal4son wrote:
What is the actual details of your recipe? Powder grains, wad shot weight.


New Cheddite hull and primer, 28 gr Longshot, WAA12R substitute from Clay Busters, 16 gauge Circle Fly wad, 535 grs Bismuth #5, over shot wad, roll crimp.


Insufficient pressure for ignition. You are running 3.4 grains under the starting load on hodgdonreloading.com That load is only generating 7,200 psi.


I had them tested and it is generating quite a bit less than that. And the same thing occured to me but after I thought a moment longer, I realized that can't be it, unless Longshot is a sentient powder.


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 Post subject: Re: Primer fails to ignite powder. Why?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:54 pm 
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garrisonjoe, every load was weighed on a digital scale.


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 Post subject: Re: Primer fails to ignite powder. Why?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:15 pm 
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Then I'd go to item 2 in list. If you are down in 5500-6000 psi range, few powders burn well there.


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 Post subject: Re: Primer fails to ignite powder. Why?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:19 pm 
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garrisonjoe wrote:
Then I'd go to item 2 in list. If you are down in 5500-6000 psi range, few powders burn well there.


But don't burn at all? That is a bit surprising. How does the powder know that there is not enough of it to bother igniting the first place?


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 Post subject: Re: Primer fails to ignite powder. Why?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:29 pm 
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If that was a load of black powder it would have gone off at about any pressure. Smokeless powders require pressure to burn with out squibbing. I believe there is also some contamination some where

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 Post subject: Re: Primer fails to ignite powder. Why?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:33 pm 
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Dutch, where does the pressure come from? How can there be pressure before the charge is ignited?

Doesn't the chicken have to first cross the road to get to the other side?


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 Post subject: Re: Primer fails to ignite powder. Why?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:35 pm 
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Goldens Always wrote:
garrisonjoe wrote:
Then I'd go to item 2 in list. If you are down in 5500-6000 psi range, few powders burn well there.


But don't burn at all? That is a bit surprising. How does the powder know that there is not enough of it to bother igniting the first place?


It's a progressive burning powder. If the burning doesn't generate sufficient pressure and heat, then the progressive burning fizzles out.

BTW, is it correct to use a 16 gauge wad in a 12 gauge hull for this type load?

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 Post subject: Re: Primer fails to ignite powder. Why?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:41 pm 
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The powder doesn't seem to have burned at all. If it fizzled before the rest of it started, what prevents fizzling in a larger charge? It's all the same at the beginning, no? It's not like the charge is so low that the burn has to jump across empty space to get to the next flake.

But it's not like I have a better idea.

The 16 gauge wad is inside the 12 ga plastic wad, so it is a nice snug fit, not loose and not binding tight. Just brings the shot level up where it needs to be for a perfect crimp. And they pattern like a million dollars at 30 yds.


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 Post subject: Re: Primer fails to ignite powder. Why?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:51 pm 
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I think your primers are good. A shell loaded with little or no powder will eject the shot and stick the wad. Take 15 grains of your powder ( no more) and light it off on a rock in your back yard.



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