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 Post subject: What's up with the Mec powder bushings????
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:20 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:29 am
Posts: 219
I am very new to reloading and just got my Mec loader up and running and starting to load some shells. I am using Red Dot powder. I have 6 powder bushings 27 thru 32 and have not found one that is less than a full grain lower than what the chart say's. I have been reaming some of them out to meet my needs. Anyone else experience this?

Thanks to all for the help I have received during my learning process.




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 Post subject: Re: What's up with the Mec powder bushings????
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:32 am 
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sandrooney wrote:
Anyone else experience this? .


Welcome to reloading. We all have, since the beginning of time MEC bushings have dropped light. Its why we need a scale.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: What's up with the Mec powder bushings????
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:33 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:29 am
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Thanks. That's what I figured.


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 Post subject: Re: What's up with the Mec powder bushings????
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:34 am 
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Completely normal

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 Post subject: Re: What's up with the Mec powder bushings????
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:36 am 
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It's common. Think about all the different powders out there, there is no way one bushing can be accurate across them all.
A good scale is your friend!

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 Post subject: Re: What's up with the Mec powder bushings????
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:51 am 
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I've often wondered if the bushings all drop light as a sort of safety margin. Remember there are people out there reloading with no scale :o

Also, single stage machines tend to pack more powder into a given volume, as they get jostled around through multiple handle-pulls per drop, versus a single pull on a progressive. So any one-size-fits-all bushing chart is going to be inherently inaccurate.


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 Post subject: Re: What's up with the Mec powder bushings????
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:58 am 
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Location: S.E. Wisconsin
Shoot2reload wrote:
I've often wondered if the bushings all drop light as a sort of safety margin. Remember there are people out there reloading with no scale .


Plus over the years powder formulas have changed, if even a little bit, it would change the density. Then there is the lot/lot differences that occur in manufacturing from the plus/minus variables allowed when mixing it.

Steve

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I repair MEC presses. PM me.
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 Post subject: Re: What's up with the Mec powder bushings????
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:06 am 
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I have almost every MEC Bushing and they typically throw light as pointed out. Probably to be conservative and I have found that slightly under is not a detriment to my reloads.

If you are using a powder baffle, keeping the powder level up in the tube and pulling the lever pretty consistently and still getting CONSISTENT lower charge weights, then you might want to ream the bushing. When I do that, I mark it as Reamed and make sure I have another same number bushing unmodified. Then I can check on any new lot of powder that I might get, which as also pointed out, can vary in density from lot to lot.

Bob

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 Post subject: Re: What's up with the Mec powder bushings????
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:59 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:29 am
Posts: 219
Good advice. thanks


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 Post subject: Re: What's up with the Mec powder bushings????
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:49 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:25 pm
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Location: Attica, Mi
The Mec bushings are rated for a single stage press where the bushing stays under the bottle for four pulls on the handle, shaking the powder and bushing. A progressive press only as long as the handle is held down once, no shaking. But that's neither here or there. Can't you just go to the next larger bushing to get what you want ? Over the years I accumulated over 20 bushings, and most are in a bottle. Four ACBs are installed in the presses I use the most. Good luck and welcome to the reloading forum.

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 Post subject: Re: What's up with the Mec powder bushings????
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:56 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:34 am
Posts: 186
Universal charge bar works for me.


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 Post subject: Re: What's up with the Mec powder bushings????
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:09 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:06 am
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Location: UK, England, Britain
Shoot2reload wrote:
I've often wondered if the bushings all drop light as a sort of safety margin. Remember there are people out there reloading with no scale :o

Also, single stage machines tend to pack more powder into a given volume, as they get jostled around through multiple handle-pulls per drop, versus a single pull on a progressive. So any one-size-fits-all bushing chart is going to be inherently inaccurate.


bladesmith wrote:
The Mec bushings are rated for a single stage press where the bushing stays under the bottle for four pulls on the handle, shaking the powder and bushing. A progressive press only as long as the handle is held down once, no shaking. But that's neither here or there. Can't you just go to the next larger bushing to get what you want ? Over the years I accumulated over 20 bushings, and most are in a bottle. Four ACBs are installed in the presses I use the most. Good luck and welcome to the reloading forum.


This is the sugar right there.


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 Post subject: Re: What's up with the Mec powder bushings????
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:41 pm 
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MEC bushings work just fine.

All this taping and reeming is basically chasing ghosts.

Let's say for kicks that the data states 17.0 grains of XXX powder. One bushing throws 16.7 and the next largest throws 17.3 and.......??

Pick the bushing that floats your boat and forget the rest. Trying to hit the exact amount of powder with a shotshell isn't going to change anything meaningfully whether it is internal ballistics or external ballistics.

I would and have always selected the larger of the two bushings especially when shooting in cold weather.

So the next question will be, what if the load is at SAAMI maximum? I still would choose the larger bushing and forget it. Again you aren't changing internal ballistics by a meaningful amount.

FWIW, yup I do use a Multiscale bar, but I follow the same path. The drops vary probably +/- 0.2 grain and I always err on the highside.

I wish a thousand times over that folks would stop having such a grab the hem of your skirt and stand on a chair moment every time SAAMI max is mentioned. It isn't a cliff to fall off of.

Pressure is your friend.

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 Post subject: Re: What's up with the Mec powder bushings????
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:57 pm 
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Another consideration is that some powders meter well and others don’t. Fox example, there are lots of complaints here about how poorly 800X meters. I find that ball powders meter best for me.

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 Post subject: Re: What's up with the Mec powder bushings????
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:11 pm 
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And how some of those powders and their metering will also depend on the press and how you operate it.

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 Post subject: Re: What's up with the Mec powder bushings????
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:16 pm 
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None of that changes the choice of bushing because you are looking for the mean not the extreme.

If you are having trouble with a powder metering, than you need to weigh the loads. Most powders, using any machine that is reasonably well operated will deliver +/- 0.3 grain drops.

You are making a very simple operation into a PITA. Reloading is simple.

K.I.S.S.

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aka Mr. Tactful. Common sense no longer appears to be common.
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 Post subject: Re: What's up with the Mec powder bushings????
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:14 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:43 am
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But ,But.....But Mark , will my velocity be so off I'll hit less than I usually do ?

With SAAMI demanding factory loads to be within 90 fps I can see your point !


Last edited by Ravenanme on Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What's up with the Mec powder bushings????
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:55 am 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 1:25 pm
Posts: 378
Location: New Mexico
I have made my own chart as I go through different powders and dram equivalent loads through the years. The bushing that works well for a load, I know the size of, and I know the weighed drop of powder that my technique and my loader will produce when that bushing is in actual use loading shells.

I concentrate on about 3 powders and a couple of velocity levels (and a couple of shot weights, but that does not affect what the bushing drops). For loading data using those powders and drop weights, I can now pretty well put exactly the right bushing in the machine, start loading and check weigh after a few powder drops have occurred - it's usually within 0.1 grain. Only takes a page in the back of the Lyman manual to record all that over several years.

And, yes, the "other" type of bushings also usually drop lighter than rated by their factories, too (RCBS, Hornady, PW).

Good luck, garrisonjoe


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 Post subject: Re: What's up with the Mec powder bushings????
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:45 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:25 pm
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Location: Attica, Mi
I agree with Mark except the last line about pressure being your friend. Only if you're a worry wart about clean burns or small spreads in velocity or cycling a auto. I shoot 100 year old guns, SxSs to be exact, and pressure is not my friend. I don't need cracked stocks, the next shot cleans out any residue left. I'm not good enough to tell a 50 or 90 FPS change, and my gun doesn't need pressure to function. I could be probably a grin off in powder drops and it wouldn't make any difference because I shoot for 7 to 8000psi in my loads. 9000psi wouldn't hurt, and 6000psi would still fire the gun just fine. JMHO

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 Post subject: Re: What's up with the Mec powder bushings????
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:00 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:51 am
Posts: 1148
For new reloaders:::
Powder weight can vary lot to lot.
Clays made in australia vs made in canada, Canada is 2 gr heavier per my bushing.
Powers manufacturer being bought out and made someplace else, powder weight is a factor...




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