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 Post subject: waa12 vs CB1118-12
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:49 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:11 pm
Posts: 7
Evening All - So in ordering new wads, instead of getting the waa12 wads I wanted, I received instead CB1118-12's by mistake. Of course you get double the wads with CB's for half the price but is there some difference somewhere that you don't know about. I've already checked load data form Hodgdon (my original load vs the same load with CB111-12) which indicates all is safe, legal etc. etc. Pressure actually decreases slightly. So what differences if any exist? Probably should count my blessings (in todays market) that I even got any and press on. Please Advise.

Best Regards,
Crossbow




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 Post subject: Re: waa12 vs CB1118-12
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:57 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 6:08 pm
Posts: 1836
Location: Minnesota
Not sure if there’s a difference, but I’ve loaded 10,000s of the CB1118 in recipes calling for Win AA12 wads, and they’ve performed well.


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 Post subject: Re: waa12 vs CB1118-12
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:50 am 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:41 am
Posts: 5641
Your good to go.

Granted that Win did come up with it own cheaper wad of the standard W12 called the Wt 12, which was made of cheaper plastic, in the CB line up of the WT12 wad, pretty much the same plastic as their W12, with some orange coloring thrown in instead.

Now in 20 and 28 wads,and win clones, huge difference in the length of the wads, and if you are not using win spherical powder to load, your are better off with the slightly shorter CB clone wads isntead. Hence the CB clone wads are slightly shorter, and allow the use of say unique or universal powders that are more bulky to get the ideal hull fill isntead.

20g wads
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 Post subject: Re: waa12 vs CB1118-12
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:28 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:28 am
Posts: 224
Crossbow, If you look on the bag it tells you that the CB1118-12 wad is a replacement for the WAA-12
wad, it's as close as you will come to an O.E.M. clone.


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 Post subject: Re: waa12 vs CB1118-12
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:06 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:11 pm
Posts: 7
Mornin All - What I have noticed concerning CB1118-12 vs WAAA12 so far is that the diameter measured at the cup area does vary between the two. My back ground in reloading is metallic. (.243, .260, .280). Did some shotgun stuff along time ago and just getting back into it again so maybe I'm being too picky. These wads do vary at this base measurement. Like an average of 24 yields CB1118-12 .696" vs WAA-12 .702". A difference of .006". In the shotgun world is this just not a big deal? I am using STS hulls. If you measured all the way around any of these wads there sure is alot of variance.


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 Post subject: Re: waa12 vs CB1118-12
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:40 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 3:07 pm
Posts: 990
Location: Georgia
Quit measuring and load them. They will work fine.


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 Post subject: Re: waa12 vs CB1118-12
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:57 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 1:25 pm
Posts: 439
Location: New Mexico
Quote:
These wads do vary at this base measurement. Like an average of 24 yields CB1118-12 .696" vs WAA-12 .702". A difference of .006". In the shotgun world is this just not a big deal?


It's been noted here before that the clone wad makers tend to produce their wad copies with slightly smaller diameter gas seal areas than the factory wads. Perhaps they are building in a slightly less effective gas seal to make it harder to get to dangerous chamber pressure levels with their wads.

In any case, most of us don't worry about the slightly looser fit and just shoot them. If it reduces muzzle velocity enough to bother you, you could bump up the powder charge 5%, I would expect. When assembling most target loads, there is little danger of getting excessive and dangerous pressures - unless you just ignore loading data and start crafting off-the-wall loads.

good luck, garrisonjoe


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 Post subject: Re: waa12 vs CB1118-12
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:37 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:11 pm
Posts: 7
So it looks like I'm going to run thru 2500 CB1118-12's. See what they do. Got up this morning early thinking of all the what if scenarios. This base diameter thing was the first thing I went to and sure enough you guys crossed that path too. Nice to know there is a solution. The load originally could NEVER have pressure issues. I have internal ballistics software that I watch like a hawk for the rifle reloading. Like to get the most out of my brass and this shotgun reloading will get the same treatment.

Best Regards,
Crossbow


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 Post subject: Re: waa12 vs CB1118-12
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:19 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:59 pm
Posts: 1215
Location: Soda Springs, Id.
put 10-K behind them and that C/B gas seal will swell up to fit that .740 barrel just like the regular AA wad will.


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 Post subject: Re: waa12 vs CB1118-12
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:08 am 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:51 pm
Posts: 2079
Location: S.E. Wisconsin
garrisonjoe wrote:
Quote:
These wads do vary at this base measurement. Like an average of 24 yields CB1118-12 .696" vs WAA-12 .702". A difference of .006". In the shotgun world is this just not a big deal?


It's been noted here before that the clone wad makers tend to produce their wad copies with slightly smaller diameter gas seal areas than the factory wads. Perhaps they are building in a slightly less effective gas seal to make it harder to get to dangerous chamber pressure levels with their wads.


Or perhaps its to aid in getting the wad cup to slide/slip past the ridge that is formed at the fold when the hull is first crimped. Something the factory does not have to deal with.

Steve

_________________
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I repair MEC presses. PM me.
Used to be Steve Y


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 Post subject: Re: waa12 vs CB1118-12
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:52 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:56 pm
Posts: 7677
Location: Central ND
.006" difference? Probably.....there is shrinkage as the plastic cools in the mold and that has to be accounted for when the mold was made. I doubt .006" was calculated for any reason other than the engineers missed a little.

Take a look a something .006" thick, do you really think that would alleviate any issue? Certainly not chamber pressure, especially if the wad is used in a tapered wall hull.

Clone wads don't always produce less chamber pressure than their OEM counterparts. A quick perusal of loading data will show that.

The CB1118-12 has proven itself for over 20 years to be an excellent alternative to the WAA12. Stop all the hand wringing and just use the wad as presented.

_________________
Mark

aka Mr. Tactful. Common sense no longer appears to be common.
NSCA#544066


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 Post subject: Re: waa12 vs CB1118-12
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:46 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 1:25 pm
Posts: 439
Location: New Mexico
Quote:
Like to get the most out of my brass and this shotgun reloading will get the same treatment.


Shotgun loading is NOT the same as many parts of centerfire cartridge loading.

Follow good instructions and good recipes from sourcs that test their loads, and you will be more than fine. If you try to apply "tight-tolerance" thinking like applies to rifle loading, you will be frustrated.

Good luck, garrisonjoe




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