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 Post subject: Rio hulls and primers most recent
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:40 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:54 am
Posts: 154
I have just purchased several hundred 16 and 12ga Rios with rio 209 primers.
I have always treated these hulls like ched or fed gm but how about the latest rio209 primers?
Are they close to ched 209 or fed 209a?
Looks like rio hull with rio primer is little hotter than ched with ched209?
Any help or guidance would be appreciated? Thanks




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 Post subject: Re: Rio hulls and primers most recent
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:12 am 
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Location: Soda Springs, Id.
just my opinion but I think the Rio primer falls just about dead in between the federal primer and the cheddite.
closer to a Winchester, which many say the cheddite is too, but I don't think [again my opinion] the cheddite is quite as forceful as the Winchester.


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 Post subject: Re: Rio hulls and primers most recent
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:30 am 
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Primers are the witchcraft in shotgun reloading. There are a lot of generalities that are true but there are anomolies that can't be explained.

IMO, fivers comment above aligns with my thoughts. Rio seems to be on the higher end of all euro primers. While I don't believe they are the equal to a FED209A, in my loading, I am often reading FED209A/Fed GM data when looking to sub a RIO209/Rio hull.

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 Post subject: Re: Rio hulls and primers most recent
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:26 pm 
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Same as Hal4son. I mostly see rio209 as same as fed209a. Usually, unless youre messing with primer pockets, you are looking at rio209, fio616, ch209, NS209, without datapoints I assume that order hot to cool. With ch209 close or slightly hotter tban win209, and ns209 same as win209. Fio just have big standard devs and extreme vel and pressure spreads for me vs. Ch209, which are very tight... fio may be softer, but their extreme spread causes more high MAP testfails for me than ch209, so I avoid them if able. This is all for steel shot at high speed and MAP, not medium pressure lead loads.


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 Post subject: Re: Rio hulls and primers most recent
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:30 pm 
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Location: Covington, WA USA
load G-600/G-1000 Rio primers exclusively in 12-gauge. Have done so for years, and have enough Rio primers to last a lifetime.

In reality (tested), the Rio primers aren't really close to the Federal 209A in strength.

However, is some applications, they are a tad hotter than W209's, and even Cheddites.

But opposite can also be true.

So we commonly use the rule of thumb of: "Treat them as if they were Federal 209A primer".

Then you can 'dial it in', (or 'dial it out') if you feel inclined to "refine" your load(s).


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 Post subject: Re: Rio hulls and primers most recent
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:35 pm 
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Dave in AZ wrote:
With ch209 close or slightly hotter tban win209, and ns209 same as win209.

Boy, be careful with that statement....

There are two different Noble Sport primers. The most common is the NS-686, which is WOEFULLY weaker than a W209, and then there is the newer (and harder to get) NS-688 which *is* said to be more closer to an actual W209, but still falls short in that regard (albeit not by much).

I bough 15K+ NS-686 below cost (because no one liked them at the club because they didn't understand them).


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 Post subject: Re: Rio hulls and primers most recent
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:40 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:54 am
Posts: 154
I want to use rio 12ga primered hulls with green dot and 12so wad. 1 oz anybody got a recommendation or tested load. I was going to just use a fed gm published load?


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 Post subject: Re: Rio hulls and primers most recent
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:31 pm 
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I agree with Republican, the RIO primer is hot for Euro primers but not like a Federal 209A. Single base powders are easier to ignite than the double base powders we use on this side of the Atlantic.

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 Post subject: Re: Rio hulls and primers most recent
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:34 pm 
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Jta5er,

Use Federal Gold Medal hull reloading data that uses the Federal 209A primer.

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 Post subject: Rio hulls and primers most recent
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:44 pm 
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Lots of discussion on Federal 209a, but I haven’t seen any comments on CCI 209 Magnum primers or any recipes using them. I have about 500 and would like to use them up somehow.

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 Post subject: Re: Rio hulls and primers most recent
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:16 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:28 am
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Casonet, there is a couple of 1-oz. recipes on the Alliant site that use the CCI-209M primer, they are both 1300 FPS loads, I've used the Red Dot load but not the Green Dot load !!!


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 Post subject: Re: Rio hulls and primers most recent
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:27 pm 
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Location: Covington, WA USA
casonet wrote:
Lots of discussion on Federal 209a, but I haven’t seen any comments on CCI 209 Magnum primers or any recipes using them. I have about 500 and would like to use them up somehow.

That's because they are so damn rare! I've been reloading for ~16 years, and never seen them.

When I was doing light load testing for someone back in 2012 who was loading 12.7 grains of e3, I wanted (needed?) to test with CCI 209M's, but couldn't find any. I made mention of that here, and another local club member in the area (named "Jeff" something), chimed in and he dropped some off at one of my clubs for my testing.

That was really nice of this Jeff guy to do that. I stated that I only needed bout 10-12 of them, but he left me a whole sleeve (which I think I still have).

Anyways, here is part of the data from that testing exercise :

Image


And by golly, I still have 88 of the 100 (- 12 for the test) still here :

Image

Boy how time flies, huh ?


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 Post subject: Re: Rio hulls and primers most recent
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:32 pm 
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Location: Soda Springs, Id.
they say magnum, but the data says otherwise.
that makes me believe they didn't burn hotter but a little bit longer to help insure powder got ignited when it was cold.


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 Post subject: Rio hulls and primers most recent
PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:08 am 
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That photo of the box does not state that they are “Magnum”, although it does indicate that they are 209M. The ones that I’ve got have “Magnum” printed on the box in large red letters. Must-be different packaging

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 Post subject: Re: Rio hulls and primers most recent
PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:09 am 
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I have reloaded about 2500 Rio's somebody gave me,with cheddite primers,they worked ok, no complaints.


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 Post subject: Re: Rio hulls and primers most recent
PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:06 am 
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Well I see that Alliant had recipes for both CCI Magnum and Federal 209A primers with Extra lite powder in my 7/8 oz 12 ga target loads. That’s where I’ll use them up

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 Post subject: Re: Rio hulls and primers most recent
PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:53 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:54 am
Posts: 154
Thanks guys also just found hodgdon web with euro hull and rio g1000 primer, is that the same rio209 bp is selling in their rio hulls now? Guess I can call bp. Anybody sure about the rio209 vs rio g1000 ?


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 Post subject: Re: Rio hulls and primers most recent
PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:57 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:28 am
Posts: 1195
Republican wrote:
Dave in AZ wrote:
With ch209 close or slightly hotter tban win209, and ns209 same as win209.

Boy, be careful with that statement....

There are two different Noble Sport primers. The most common is the NS-686, which is WOEFULLY weaker than a W209, and then there is the newer (and harder to get) NS-688 which *is* said to be more closer to an actual W209, but still falls short in that regard (albeit not by much).

I bough 15K+ NS-686 below cost (because no one liked them at the club because they didn't understand them).


Thx for the head's up Republican. Now I have to go look and see what I have, hope it is 688...
Ps, I was seeing cci209M in Cabelas all the time for last 4 years, they always had them even if nothing else. I bought a couple bricks for $23 or so just because. Blue packaging now.


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 Post subject: Re: Rio hulls and primers most recent
PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:13 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:45 am
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Location: Utah
Quote:
. they say magnum, but the data says otherwise.
that makes me believe they didn't burn hotter but a little bit longer to help insure powder got ignited when it was cold.

You may have the older CCI209M primers before Federal started manufacturing them.
I still have some older CCI 209 magnum primers.


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 Post subject: Re: Rio hulls and primers most recent
PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:29 pm 
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I’ve got 1000 of the old Omark CCI REGULAR primers



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