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 Post subject: Federal Papers
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:58 pm 
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i tried reloading these, but the crimps were not satisfactory. What would you say is the best use of these hulls? I heard that the Cowboy Action guys like them for black powder loads, is that true?




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 Post subject: Re: Federal Papers
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:16 pm 
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If using a MEC machine, try the smooth crimp starter. It makes all the difference in the world and you will produce crimps that are stunningly perfect. Those are great hulls for a reload or two.

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 Post subject: Re: Federal Papers
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 1:25 pm
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Location: New Mexico
Quote:
I heard that the Cowboy Action guys like them for black powder loads, is that true?


Not much demand that I've seen in that game for papers. Many just load Win AA HS once and done, or maybe 2x. Let's them do either a star crimp or a roll crimp (trimmed case, usually). Or Fed plastics. Or Gun Clubs. Or a lot use brass hulls, too. Not for one and done, though!

good luck, garrisonjoe


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 Post subject: Re: Federal Papers
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:17 pm 
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I mostly use them for 1 1/8 oz hunting loads for when I use a semiauto. The paper hulls break down much quicker than plastic and leave a shorter lasting mess. At times I do use plastic hulls for hunting but papers are my preference.

I have pinholes begin around the second reload at which time I toss the hull. I use MEC reloaders with the smooth crimp starter but I used the star starter for thousands of hulls prior. Every crimp may not have been pristine looking but they worked well enough to break targets and kill birds if I did my part.


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 Post subject: Re: Federal Papers
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:33 pm 
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wrfish wrote:
i tried reloading these, but the crimps were not satisfactory. What would you say is the best use of these hulls? I heard that the Cowboy Action guys like them for black powder loads, is that true?


What do your crimps look like?
Unsatisfactory crimps suggests a stack height issue.

https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=521402
The Herco load in this thread had the nicest, tightest crimps. Some of the others had a slight pucker. The pictured hulls were done with a 6pt starter. I've used the smooth and the 8pt starters with good results. I don't know that I have a strong preference when it comes to crimp starters with papers.

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 Post subject: Re: Federal Papers
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:53 am 
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Location: Massachusetts
I load them 3 times and toss, as mentioned above they develop pin holes just above the brass. With the smooth precrimper they come out looking just like factory shells. I load them with 1 oz of either 7-1/2’s for sporting clays or 9’s for skeet.


Last edited by icyclefar on Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Federal Papers
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:13 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:23 pm
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Location: Upper Midwest
Years ago I spoke with a Federal ballistician about paper hulls. He recommended one reload and then toss them. They have studied this and these hulls lose crimp integrity, and the dreaded pinholes, after 1 reload. This causes them to have a lot of variability and a loss of velocity on the second reload. I know guys who reload these hulls until they are ragged, but that's neither safe nor efficient. I like my reloads to work well. Papers do smell nice! I used to reload a ton of them as I had several well-heeled trap shooters who shot factory papers in tournaments and gave me their empties. I made some nice 1 1/4oz pheasant loads to shoot in an L.C. Smith sxs with paper hulls. Very cool.
Regards,
Jeff


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 Post subject: Re: Federal Papers
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:52 am 
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Cone starters may be better, but just removing the crimp starter and going directly to main crimper has worked fine for me. Just using the 8-point starter will get you a functional one-and-done load.

Free Bonus - I generally go up a bushing from my AA/STS load.

Free Bonus 2 - I've successfully loaded thousands with WAA12, and WAA12SL, Figure 8 and TGT12 wads and their clones. I've broken many great scores at skeet with those wads and Red Dot/Promo. Dunno about fine grained powders.

RXP12 wads do not work.

Best use for me was for one-and-done loads thru an automatic where I couldn't pick-up empties.


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 Post subject: Re: Federal Papers
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:33 am 
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Paper wads have a very good crimp memory which is why the smooth crimp starter works so well

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 Post subject: Re: Federal Papers
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:32 am 
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Federal papers load very nicely.

I load them either on a Sizemaster or 9000H using the smooth cone crimp starter.
Here is the load right out of Lyman #5:

Federal 2 3/4" paper hull
Federal 209A primer
19.5 grains 700-X
Federal 12S0 or CB2100-12 wad
1 oz. lead shot

1282 FPS 8,900 PSI

I have also dropped it down to 18.5 grains before.

These were reloaded on my 9000H. The settings are pretty much the same as the same load in a Federal Gold Medal.

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 Post subject: Re: Federal Papers
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:38 am 
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And if memory serves me correctly they have an actual brass base/rim. Imagine that!


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 Post subject: Federal Papers
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:34 am 
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I recently bought 6000 of those once fired and sold them to a trap shooting buddy of mine for 2 cents each which is what I paid for them. He is as happy as a pig in the mud because he like them better than anything made out of plastic

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 Post subject: Re: Federal Papers
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:23 pm
Posts: 244
Thermagic hull conditioner if you can find one will heat wax and bring the crimp area back to factory specs. Won't stop pin holes though. Federal papers and burnt Red Dot smell like my childhood just missing the wet bird dog smell.


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 Post subject: Re: Federal Papers
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:38 pm 
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Jacks Grampa,

Like this?

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aka Mr. Tactful. Common sense no longer appears to be common.
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 Post subject: Re: Federal Papers
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:12 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:11 am
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Location: Western Tampa, FL
In years past I used these hulls almost exclusively for hunting loads for two reasons. The large internal capacity and the fact that you could eject them out into the countryside and not feel too guilty about littering up the area.

In fact if I was king for a week, I would demand that all hunting loads be made with paper hulls for eco-friendly reasons.


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 Post subject: Re: Federal Papers
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:10 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:23 pm
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dogchaser37 wrote:
Jacks Grampa,

Like this?

Image

That's it. If you want sell I'd be interested. Sold mine to a friend a few years ago and really regret it.


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 Post subject: Re: Federal Papers
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:37 pm 
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Jacks Grandpa,

I bought this new about 15 or so years ago on E-bay. I looked for a LONG time.

It works on plastic hulls too, but I only have used it for papers.

I have a lot of papers left and I have no plans on selling it.

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aka Mr. Tactful. Common sense no longer appears to be common.
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 Post subject: Re: Federal Papers
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:56 pm 
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When using a paper mouth heater like that, do you run the hulls through the loader while they're still warm?

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 Post subject: Re: Federal Papers
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:42 pm 
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Hal4son,

No, mostly because it is easier to smooth all the hulls up first and then reload them.

But as long as the wax has solidified I don't see anything wrong with reloading the hulls when they are still warm.

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 Post subject: Re: Federal Papers
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:37 pm 
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Location: Attica, Mi
First off, I don't give out " free bonuses ", just what works for me. A smooth crimp started is recommended, and you can order them from Mec, or make your own like I do by grinding out the ribs in a plastic crimp starter with a Dremal tool. You can also make your own heating tool with a woman's hair curling iron. The feared pin holes will come before you need to condition the end. I've had a little more luck than one or two reloads - sometimes up to 3 or 4 before the pin holes. Some claim they shoot softer because the paper base and walls of the shell absorb some of the shock when the shell first goes off. And you know the mind - if you believe it, it probably is.



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