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 Post subject: Re: Swapping Primers #2
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:09 pm 
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When a lab says you can use one primer as a replacement for another, the statement doesn't mean the performance will be the same, it only means that it is a safe replacement.



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 Post subject: Re: Swapping Primers #2
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:40 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:56 pm
Posts: 159
seb7515 wrote:
Interesting difference in published loads. Hodgdon says
WinchesterHS 16.5grWSF Win. 209 WAA20 11,200 PSI 1,200fps

And I don't know if Fiochi's are the same as Winchesters..


Yes I am aware of the Hodgdon data set. That particular load is actually a direct copy from the old Winchester manual prior to the introduction of the HS hull. Winchester listed that load as a duplicate of the 7/8 AA target load. Here is a link. Go to page 23.
https://www.appuntidiricarica.com/plugi ... anual-.pdf
Interested to hear how Bob K and his tubes get along with Winchester AA’s. The next question is do the HS hulls generate the same pressure and velocities as the CF’s? I don’t have a pressure tester but I do have a chronograph... I know they don’t quite load the same on my press... I suspect the data set in Lymans 5th is newer data. I have no proof of that other than it includes the HS Hull though.
Willie


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 Post subject: Re: Swapping Primers #2
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:39 pm 
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To stay around 10K pressure, I use 20/28, Win 209 primer, 7/8 oz shot, in a Claybuster 1078-20 wad and a Remington hull. According to Alliant it is 10,010 psi.

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 Post subject: Re: Swapping Primers #2
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:20 pm 
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xxxx


Last edited by J.Fred_Muggs on Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Swapping Primers #2
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:55 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:00 pm
Posts: 51
WIflytier wrote:
Willie T

The ‘pressure is up there’ Bob_K is referring to is in regard to 20 ga tubes in a 12 ga barrel, or 28 ga tubes in a 20 ga barrel. Your situation doesn’t apply because you’re using a 20 ga gun.

FWIW, the chambers in the above mentioned tubes are rather thin, and Briley and Kolar like reloaders to keep pressures at 10,000psi and below, actually maybe just below! Tubes chambers have cracked with loads at higher pressures. I’ve read the letter from the tube company to a friend in which they said they wouldn’t be repairing a chamber without charging in the future. His loads were too hot, Green Dot in 7/8 oz loads.

Good luck with your primer swap.


I dont reload 20g but i do have tubes. I have only shot factory 20g ammo in them. how do i know what pressure factory ammo is? more or less than 10,000psi? what is the differance in factory ammo at 11k psi and reloads at the same psi?


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 Post subject: Re: Swapping Primers #2
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:01 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:56 pm
Posts: 159
moorewhiskey wrote:
WIflytier wrote:
Willie T

The ‘pressure is up there’ Bob_K is referring to is in regard to 20 ga tubes in a 12 ga barrel, or 28 ga tubes in a 20 ga barrel. Your situation doesn’t apply because you’re using a 20 ga gun.

FWIW, the chambers in the above mentioned tubes are rather thin, and Briley and Kolar like reloaders to keep pressures at 10,000psi and below, actually maybe just below! Tubes chambers have cracked with loads at higher pressures. I’ve read the letter from the tube company to a friend in which they said they wouldn’t be repairing a chamber without charging in the future. His loads were too hot, Green Dot in 7/8 oz loads.

Good luck with your primer swap.


I dont reload 20g but i do have tubes. I have only shot factory 20g ammo in them. how do i know what pressure factory ammo is? more or less than 10,000psi? what is the differance in factory ammo at 11k psi and reloads at the same psi?


Speculation on my part but my guess is that most factory loads exceed 10,000 psi. Consistent velocity and a robust 12 month load is best accomplished with a complete and consistent powder burn. It takes a certain amount of pressure to achieve. Dropping the powder charge makes for a soft shooting load but is also often results in a filthy shotgun. As pressure drops the rate of burn does as well. Off sounding reports in very cold weather are a sure indication of low pressure. Factory ammunition is made to shoot, regardless of weather. This forum has a lot of high volume clay shooters that are willing to accept the trade offs of a low pressure load for the reduction in recoil and to stretch their components. The bird hunter buying factory on the other hand wants a clean load that shoots the same regardless of weather and is not going to be lugging a tubed shotgun around in the field.
Willie


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 Post subject: Re: Swapping Primers #2
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:13 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:31 pm
Posts: 2474
Willie T wrote:
Factory ammunition is made to shoot, regardless of weather. This forum has a lot of high volume clay shooters that are willing to accept the trade offs of a low pressure load for the reduction in recoil and to stretch their components. The bird hunter buying factory on the other hand wants a clean load that shoots the same regardless of weather and is not going to be lugging a tubed shotgun around in the field.


Pretty much spot on. I reload for target and purchase for hunting.

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 Post subject: Re: Swapping Primers #2
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:36 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 5:50 pm
Posts: 68
J.Fred_Muggs wrote:
D McMillen wrote:
Graf and Sons had listed a primer substitution chart, and according to them you can use the 616 for W209.


I can't find that. Link please.



https://www.grafs.com/uploads/technical ... file/6.pdf


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 Post subject: Swapping Primers #2
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:53 pm 
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I’m looking at this chart and trying to figure out what it’s usefulness might be other than the product number vs the application. The application is usually printed rather boldly on the product box. I see nothing about substitutions



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