ShotGunWorld Shotguns

It is currently Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:01 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Image



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Myth-busters, WW-209s after using Fiocchi primers
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:03 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:02 pm
Posts: 474
After using Fiocchi primers, I tried some WW-209s in the same hulls. The WW-209s did not fall out.




Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Myth-busters, WW-209s after using Fiocchi primers
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:10 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:56 pm
Posts: 7907
Location: Central ND
J.Fred_Muggs, What kind of hulls? Can you push the primers in with your fingers or do you need to use the machine.

I have some 16 gauge Fiocchi hulls that will hold Winchester primers. I can push the Winchesters in with my thumb, all but the last few thousandths. I use the loads in an old Model 12, with no issues.

_________________
Mark

aka Mr. Tactful. Common sense no longer appears to be common.
NSCA#544066


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Myth-busters, WW-209s after using Fiocchi primers
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:20 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:33 pm
Posts: 6662
Location: Mascoutah IL
You didn't bust any myths.

The Fiocchi primers did in fact stretch your primer pockets to dimensions that are fractionally larger than the Winchester primer. The primers might still have enough grip on the sidewall of the pocket to stay in. You might also find one falls out while rattling around in your shell pouch. You might also have one fall out when hit with the bolt of a semi-auto.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Myth-busters, WW-209s after using Fiocchi primers
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:37 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:02 pm
Posts: 474
dogchaser37 wrote:
J.Fred_Muggs, What kind of hulls? Can you push the primers in with your fingers or do you need to use the machine.


STS and AAs. I just checked and I cannot push in the WW-209s by hand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Myth-busters, WW-209s after using Fiocchi primers
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:47 am 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:51 pm
Posts: 2377
Location: S.E. Wisconsin
Your findings depend on how many times you put a Fiocchi into a hull. Once, twice you will be OK. But in the long run there is no way you can insert something into a hole that is larger in diameter and expect something that is smaller in diameter to fit correctly the next time.

Steve

_________________
The More Times You Pull The Trigger The More Fun You Are Having.
I repair MEC presses. PM me.
Used to be Steve Y


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Myth-busters, WW-209s after using Fiocchi primers
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:06 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:56 pm
Posts: 7907
Location: Central ND
I just measured some Winchester 209's .242" - .243". The Fiocchi's I punched out are .243" to .244". Probably depends on how far out of round things are, on whether Winchesters will stay in well or not. I don't have any new Fiocchi primers to measure. Like YevetS, posted, the amount of times you have used Fiocchi primers will matter also.

FWIW, the old CCI primers fit very tight in all Fiocchi hulls, they are very close to the same size as the Fiocchi's and the CCI's are out of round.

_________________
Mark

aka Mr. Tactful. Common sense no longer appears to be common.
NSCA#544066


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Myth-busters, WW-209s after using Fiocchi primers
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:48 pm 
Diamond Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:04 pm
Posts: 1503
Location: Upstate NY
DEG wrote:
You didn't bust any myths.

The Fiocchi primers did in fact stretch your primer pockets to dimensions that are fractionally larger than the Winchester primer. The primers might still have enough grip on the sidewall of the pocket to stay in. You might also find one falls out while rattling around in your shell pouch. You might also have one fall out when hit with the bolt of a semi-auto.


+1

It's not a myth; Fiocchis are larger in diameter than Winchesters.

_________________
"The freaks can't be normally formalized, nor can we be formally normalized. What we want is complete weirdification."
KD2TTM
Member: NRA, New York Rifle and Pistol Association


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Myth-busters, WW-209s after using Fiocchi primers
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 2:06 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:15 pm
Posts: 5871
Location: Northern Virginia
I once reloaded some once-fired blue Rio hulls using Fed 209A primers. One forum user had the nerve to call me a liar, saying there was no way those primers would work. Well, they did, and they didn't fall out.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Myth-busters, WW-209s after using Fiocchi primers
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:46 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 2:38 am
Posts: 1762
Location: San Jose, CA
I used to keep a chart of primers that would eventually lead to back outs. but once the chart started looking like John Madden explaining a play with a digital chalkboard, I gave up and now just use calipers.

I can recall using approximately 10 different brands, and that doesn't count the reclaimed primers from guys giving me old reloads.

_________________
I like boomsticks!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Myth-busters, WW-209s after using Fiocchi primers
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:52 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:02 pm
Posts: 474
Out of curiosity I removed a primer from a once-fired, fiber based, Top Gun or Estate. Then inserted and removed a Fiocchi. I could not insert a WW-209 by hand. I then inserted WW-209 with my reloader. It did not fall out. When I removed it with the machine it didn't require noticeably less handle pressure than removing the original or the Fiocchi.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Myth-busters, WW-209s after using Fiocchi primers
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:04 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 2:38 am
Posts: 1762
Location: San Jose, CA
Well, a sample of one might not be enough to make a judgement on the whether or not other reloaders are talking through their butts.

_________________
I like boomsticks!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Myth-busters, WW-209s after using Fiocchi primers
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:10 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:56 pm
Posts: 158
I’m down on the gulf coast for the holiday or I would measure both. When I looked at them,the Fiochi is cylindrical. The Winchester is tapered. If my memory is correct, up near the rim the Fiochi I measured was only .0005 larger diameter than the Winchester. Further down near the bottom the Winchester was .0015 smaller.
Willie


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Myth-busters, WW-209s after using Fiocchi primers
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:22 pm 
Diamond Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:04 pm
Posts: 1503
Location: Upstate NY
Image

_________________
"The freaks can't be normally formalized, nor can we be formally normalized. What we want is complete weirdification."
KD2TTM
Member: NRA, New York Rifle and Pistol Association


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Myth-busters, WW-209s after using Fiocchi primers
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:37 pm 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:51 pm
Posts: 2377
Location: S.E. Wisconsin
J.Fred_Muggs wrote:
Out of curiosity I removed a primer from a once-fired, fiber based, Top Gun or Estate. Then inserted and removed a Fiocchi. I could not insert a WW-209 by hand. I then inserted WW-209 with my reloader. It did not fall out. When I removed it with the machine it didn't require noticeably less handle pressure than removing the original or the Fiocchi.


Yes without a doubt that will work, but is not what the past posts on this subject have been about.
Put a Fiocchi primer into a Win AA hull with your load and fire it. Now reload it 4 more times with a Fiocchi primer. Now put a Win primer back into it.

Steve

_________________
The More Times You Pull The Trigger The More Fun You Are Having.
I repair MEC presses. PM me.
Used to be Steve Y


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Myth-busters, WW-209s after using Fiocchi primers
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:25 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:38 pm
Posts: 2619
Location: San Jose, CA
I still run a lot of Blue Magics/Peters Target using Fiocchi primers since the 80's. Multiple firing with Win primers made the primer pockets sloppy. Switching to Fiocchi cured that problem. Now the hulls tend to get worn out before the primer pockets do.

In a force fit, either one or both can "give".

These weren't high pressure rounds either as back then I used 800X for 1oz loads. around 7kpsi.

So really, multiple firing with any primer can eventually do it's toll.

_________________
Hornady Apex 91 shotshell loaders in 12 g and 20g for sale

https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=448601


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Myth-busters, WW-209s after using Fiocchi primers
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:33 am 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:32 pm
Posts: 734
It doesn't have to look like a problem to be a problem. Load up a bucket full like that and you'll likely find a loose primer or two in the bottom at some point.

...happened to me last week. Went through 250 shells to find the one that got away. Stuffed a Rio up it's backside. Now I'm wondering how many in that batch may have been with Fiocchi in it's past.

_________________
Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. -Gustav Mahler


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Myth-busters, WW-209s after using Fiocchi primers
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:30 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:25 pm
Posts: 2437
Location: NW, CT
Shoot them in an over under or a side by side and you likely won't have an issue.
Pump or auto, you may discover you are not a myth buster after all.
Don't ask me how I know.

Jim


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Myth-busters, WW-209s after using Fiocchi primers
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 4:10 pm 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 12:11 pm
Posts: 3598
Location: Afton, VA
I am with Jim on this. I know they fall out and jamb my 1100 28 ga. I suspect the change in direction as the hull hits the ejector is when the primer comes out.

_________________
Doubled Distinguished
NRA Benefactor Member
NSSA Life Member
NAHC Life Member
VA State Shooting Association Life Member
NSSA Referee
NSSA Level I Instructor


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Myth-busters, WW-209s after using Fiocchi primers
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:17 pm 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:46 pm
Posts: 508
Location: MN.
Must have been at least 15 years ago, my son and I shot ~20K rounds a year back then. To save money one summer went to F616 primers and Promo powder. Worked fine in the summer, winter not so much.

Image

Went through a lot of them that year, many multiple reloads of hulls. Went back to W209 primers and Clays powder (1 oz.) loads. Never had a problem with loose primer pockets when I went back to W209's. Hulls were STS\Nitro27\AA. Mec 9000 with one of Ben's first automates. Guns were Over Unders primarily B. Rizzini and Beretta Gold E.

Now I am down to 6K Cheddite for primers which I only used to use in 16 ga. Cheddite hulls. Have 8K W209 on back order from BPI but strongly suspect I will be using Cheddite primers in STS and Nitro hulls long before they show up. If they ever do show up. Time will tell how the Cheddite primers make out as far as primer pocket expansion.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Myth-busters, WW-209s after using Fiocchi primers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:14 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:02 pm
Posts: 474
Cold Iron wrote:
one summer went to F616 primers

Went through a lot of them that year, many multiple reloads of hulls. Went back to W209 primers and Clays powder (1 oz.) loads. Never had a problem with loose primer pockets when I went back to W209's.


{hs#




Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: 2lo8s, 5 Stand Dan, 58PERAZZI, avogunner, BigDeeeeeeee, Bing [Bot], buster45*, chairman, cowpoke, David Spear, dcblvsh2, deadnlost, dezrat57, Doc090107, dogchaser37, elpato, EPSteel, EricB, Ernest T, floridaford, fungunner, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], grade6man, greenhornet, gthudspeth, harvard, JASmith, jbc247, John Henry, jusanothajoe, lt0026, McFarmer, mpolans, msmith, MUFC07, mustanggt, Novak77, noweil, Oldandrusty, oneeyednine1029, oneounceload, PennSkeet, piano2ner, pitandremington, RAT 3323, remdog1187, Researcher01, rickeroo, RMc, Road Man, RSpence, Saltydog055, scooter123, Scout80, SD angler, shacked, shootingcajun, SHughes, skar, Skeeter5050, southdakbearfan, Station9, SuperXOne, SupRdave, sv10001975, Tadman1, TandT, tgb18, TMWilsoniv, TruePairLover, viking, Wchadw, Westender, Wildwood, wkirk, Woodymac


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group    - DMCA Notice