ShotGunWorld Shotguns

It is currently Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:16 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Image



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Advantage of reloading higher velocity, lighter loads
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:42 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:45 am
Posts: 27
Location: Wyoming
Curious what others view as the advantage to reloading higher velocity, lighter payloads, other than cost. Are they considered to be just as effective, ex... 12 ga 1 1/8 oz at 1200 vs 1 oz at 1280? What is the advantage of the higher velocity?What has been your experience? Thanks




Last edited by DHC6 on Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advantage of reloading higher velocity, lighter loads
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:25 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:50 pm
Posts: 385
Cool thread. I'm too green to have anything to add, but look forward to responses.

_________________
NSCA# 675393
Chasing punches


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advantage of reloading higher velocity, lighter loads
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:00 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:37 pm
Posts: 1101
Location: colorado
Speed effects recoil, ie faster more recoil, slower less. Beyond that what speed works for you is really how well you shoot that speed. Some can shoot slow loads, other do better with standard or fast loads.

Payload reduces recoil as well. If I remember right, 1/8 oz is equal to about 100 fps. You can verify this with a recoil calculator. So a 1 1/8 at 1100 fps is equal to a 1 oz at 1200 fps for recoil.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advantage of reloading higher velocity, lighter loads
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:58 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:59 pm
Posts: 1406
Location: Soda Springs, Id.
sometimes a little more velocity with a bit less payload can help have a better filled out pattern.
or the way some like to state it,,, it reduces the hot core a heavier/slower payload can have.
you can 'fix' it with a choke change?

your only gonna know by using the gun on a pattern board.
at different distances.
with different chokes.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advantage of reloading higher velocity, lighter loads
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:20 pm 
Shotgun Expert
Shotgun Expert
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:02 am
Posts: 27352
Location: Plainfield, IL
DHC6 wrote:
Curious what others view as the advantage to reloading higher velocity, lighter payloads, other than cost. Are they considered to be just as effective, ex... 12 ga 1 1/8 oz at 1200 vs 1 oz at 1280? What is the advantage of the higher velocity?What has been your experience? Thanks


You won't find any clinical or scientific data to support lower payloads (and less pellets). However, 1300 fps 1 oz. loads are popular (the default load) for FITASC.

Quote:
MAXIMUM LOADS – 12-gauge loads are restricted to one ounce of shot. Shot size is restricted to 7-½’s maximum (i.e., 7-½’s or 8’s are fine, 9’s are useless, 6’s are not allowed). There is no restriction on speed (measured in FPS). If shooting a sub-gauge FITASC event, maximum loads are 7/8 ounce for 20-gauge, and 3/4 ounce for 28-gauge.


So, if you are shooting FITASC, 1-1/8 oz. loads are not allowed.

Secondarily, 1300 fps 1 oz. loads do well where slower 1 oz. loads don't have enough power to cycle some semi-autos.

Finally, let's say you load International Clays.

Quote:
Hodgdon Internat'l Buy Now Rem. 209P Rem. TGT 12 20.2 6,800 LUP 1,180
Hodgdon Internat'l Buy Now Rem. 209P Rem. TGT 12 20.9 7,700 LUP 1,235
Hodgdon Internat'l Buy Now Rem. 209P Rem. TGT 12 21.4 8,900 LUP 1,290


The 1290 fps International Clays load is significantly cleaner burning than the 1180 fps load.

_________________
--Randy

http://randywakeman.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advantage of reloading higher velocity, lighter loads
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:45 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:04 pm
Posts: 644
FWIW, and I'll grant it might not be much, I've found faster loads tend to disperse less for a given range. So for skeet I tend to load as slow as I can and still get reliable cycling. For sporting clays, where the distances tend to be a little longer, I load a little hotter.

But you're not really going to know much without a trip to a patterning board. As Randy mentions, sometimes to cycle a SA you load faster to make up for a reduced payload, but again that messes with your pattern.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advantage of reloading higher velocity, lighter loads
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:01 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:33 pm
Posts: 6662
Location: Mascoutah IL
I don't think there is an advantage to higher velocity lower payload; I think it's a disadvantage.

Higher velocity has the advantage of more energy at longer ranges, or for harder targets like a rabbit, but I believe you have nullified that advantage by reducing payload. For normal targets at short or moderate range there really is no advantage for the higher speed so you are just handicapping yourself by reducing payload.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advantage of reloading higher velocity, lighter loads
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:11 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:56 pm
Posts: 7907
Location: Central ND
There are all kinds of old wives tales about velocity and patterns.

The truth is, you have to pattern your gun with the loads you intend to use.

If you don't want to pattern

NOT TALKING ABOUT RECOIL.....

The overwhelming majority of shooters are not going to notice any huge performance difference between a load that has a 1,150 FPS velocity and a load going 1,300 FPS. Or the difference between a 7/8 oz. load and a 1 1/8 oz. load.

I like the 1250 to 1300 FPS 1 oz. loads. When it really gets serious 1 1/8 oz. at 1200 FPS.

_________________
Mark

aka Mr. Tactful. Common sense no longer appears to be common.
NSCA#544066


Last edited by dogchaser37 on Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advantage of reloading higher velocity, lighter loads
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:24 am 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:32 pm
Posts: 734
DHC6 wrote:
Curious what others view as the advantage to reloading higher velocity, lighter payloads, other than cost. Are they considered to be just as effective, ex... 12 ga 1 1/8 oz at 1200 vs 1 oz at 1280? What is the advantage of the higher velocity?What has been your experience? Thanks


Are these questions in regard to shooting clay, fur or feathers?

_________________
Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. -Gustav Mahler


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advantage of reloading higher velocity, lighter loads
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:43 am 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:20 pm
Posts: 23359
My 3/4 oz reloads burn better/cleaner at 1275 than they did at 1210 and they work my gas guns without issues.
With a LM choke they smoke 5-stand targets

_________________
The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory, Aldo Gucci

Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience, George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advantage of reloading higher velocity, lighter loads
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:45 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:56 pm
Posts: 7907
Location: Central ND
Quote:
Higher velocity has the advantage of more energy at longer ranges


No. Higher velocity gives you more pellet energy over the entire effective range. If you are increasing velocity for targets that are farther away, you are using higher velocities for the wrong reasons and you will probably be disappointed.


The whole point of choke, load, pellet size and velocity is to use a combination that will break every target that you properly point.....not to get lucky with the golden BB @ 60 yards.

_________________
Mark

aka Mr. Tactful. Common sense no longer appears to be common.
NSCA#544066


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advantage of reloading higher velocity, lighter loads
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:00 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:56 pm
Posts: 7907
Location: Central ND
DHC6,

Quote:
Advantage of reloading higher velocity, lighter loads


To get back to your original question.

The advantage?

Lighter recoil and higher pellet energy. The real advantage being the lighter recoil if that is what is required. If you can handle the recoil of 1 1/8 oz. loads, there is no huge advantage to lighter, faster loads.

It's all 6" between the ears stuff and for most of us, 6" between the ears is a bad place to be.

_________________
Mark

aka Mr. Tactful. Common sense no longer appears to be common.
NSCA#544066


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advantage of reloading higher velocity, lighter loads
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:34 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:59 pm
Posts: 1406
Location: Soda Springs, Id.
they make larger pellets for a reason.
if all we had to do was speed things up for more energy we'd have had 1700 fps. #7-1/2 shot shell loads in the 50's.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advantage of reloading higher velocity, lighter loads
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:48 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 1:25 pm
Posts: 554
Location: New Mexico
Surprised the quantitative reason hasn't been mentioned yet. Lighter shell payloads mean you buy shot less often. Most folks are stretching out their shot supply right now.

All the rest of the variations are just matters of personal preference on what loads you are willing to get used to and trust, either for competition or for hunting.

good luck, garrisonjoe


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advantage of reloading higher velocity, lighter loads
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:05 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:33 pm
Posts: 6662
Location: Mascoutah IL
dogchaser37 wrote:
Quote:
Higher velocity has the advantage of more energy at longer ranges


No. Higher velocity gives you more pellet energy over the entire effective range. If you are increasing velocity for targets that are farther away, you are using higher velocities for the wrong reasons and you will probably be disappointed.



It's not an opinion that higher velocity has the advantage of more energy at longer ranges. It's a statement of fact.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advantage of reloading higher velocity, lighter loads
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:06 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:30 pm
Posts: 97
For clay targets, I have found no advantage in higher velocity with light loads. 1150 fps actually works better in my gun than 1300fps. I have not patterned them on the board. I dont need to. My 1150 7/8 loads smoke trap targets. At 1300 fps, I get less convincing breaks. You may find the opposite with your gun where faster loads pattern better.

If you are hunting, there is an advantage to velocity provided you are not sacrificing pattern because of it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advantage of reloading higher velocity, lighter loads
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:21 am 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:32 pm
Posts: 734
dogchaser37 wrote:
It's all 6" between the ears stuff and for most of us, 6" between the ears is a bad place to be.


That is a quotable quote.

_________________
Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. -Gustav Mahler


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advantage of reloading higher velocity, lighter loads
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:45 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:06 am
Posts: 3808
Location: UK, England, Britain
1oz at 1200 is nice load.
The 7/8oz trap loads at 1400 are a staple here for everything.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advantage of reloading higher velocity, lighter loads
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:11 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:41 pm
Posts: 332
I never saw a performance difference when I dropped from 1 1/8 oz to 1 oz. I didn’t push up the velocity. I changed it to save money on shot. In a 25 pound bag I can load about 400 1 oz shells or about 355 1 1/8 oz shells. Or about two boxes of shells more for the 1 oz load. More than enough reason to drop to the lighter shot load shells.

_________________
Las Vegas is the only place where money talks. It says Good Bye.
Frank Sinatra


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advantage of reloading higher velocity, lighter loads
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:41 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:56 pm
Posts: 7907
Location: Central ND
DEG,

What you are saying is true, that higher velocities give more pellet energy at longer ranges. But once you start shooting targets much past 40 yards, the difference is negligible.

Image

Image

The reason that velocities go up as the payload weight goes down, is not to break targets or kill birds farther out. The reason is, it is possible to get decent patterns with light loads at higher velocities because the amount of setback to deform the pellets in the lower layers of shot in the shotcup is less. If you can gain pellet energy that isn't ever bad. It does not mean that it is a longer range load.

Look at the 40 yard chart for both loads. At 45 yards the pellets that started off at 1,300 FPS has less energy than the 1200 FPS load at 40 yards. When I adjusted the distance on the 1300 FPS load it is actually 43 yards.......9 feet of more killing power.

Talk about diminishing returns.


Pattern density is always part of the equation, and much more important at distance than a 100 FPS increase in velocity.



_________________
Mark

aka Mr. Tactful. Common sense no longer appears to be common.
NSCA#544066


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: 2LegsBetter, 2lo8s, adavey, battuedave, bigwoods, Biigote, Bing [Bot], birdhunter39, Bladeswitcher, BobBill, buckmark525, castnblast2, cheecho1960, CrusherT, D McMillen, delaware_export, Der Verge, DesertMuleDeer, desmobob, dgm911, Docterduck, double20, dubob, ebcjr, EricB, Fasttalker27, Fitasc2, Flyingtargets!, Fubar233, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], hes, hs125, I like pie, jbmich, jlostrander, John H, jrmev, Juma, Keperkey, May, McFarmer, Mike-Sid, Mkk, oyeme, pike3e, Remduck1, rkrcpa, Road Man, Rockett0, RPRNY, Safetyfast, Saltydog055, saskbooknut, se2884, shacked, SHughes, Skeet_Man, smlekid, Specklebelly, Steelie68, Take-5-JB, Tennessee Cattleman, Texaspainter, Tidefanatic, Utah David, viking, xsshooter, Yeti007


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group    - DMCA Notice