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 Post subject: Vectan Powders in the USA
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:10 pm 
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As a user of Vectan powders in 12 & 20 gauge reloads for the past couple of years, I was interested in what the current status of its availability in the USA. Some of you may already know what I found out, but for those that don't, I offer the following information. I sent an email directly to Noble Sport in France and asked them for the 'real' story. I got a reply this morning. Here is what they sent me:
Noble Sport wrote:
Thanks for your interest. In attachment you can find the US reloading catalogue for the powders that we have traditionally distributed in the US through Graf. Reloading data are not available for the rest of the markets, since shotshell reloading is not a usual practice. We currently have not a distribution in the US, since Graf decided to drop off a couple of years ago. We were working on some opportunities to be back in the market, but the main issue now is the lack of capacity to serve all markets. We’ll get back to you once the product is again available in the US. Best regards,
I would doubt that there are any purveyors of shotgun reloading powders that will still have any Vectan powders in stock. I have some Prima V, GM3, and A0 still left that should carry me for about 12 to 18 more months. I hope that by the time it runs out that Noble Sport will have secured another USA Importer. I really like their powders for target loadings in both 12 & 20 gauge.

If you would like a copy of the reloading document they sent me, you will have to provide me with an email address via a PM. Near as I can tell, the SGW PM software doesn't allow attachment of PDF files.



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 Post subject: Re: Vectan Powders in the USA
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:37 pm 
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dubob wrote:
We were working on some opportunities to be back in the market, but the main issue now is the lack of capacity to serve all markets


This kind of confirms the "rumor" I heard. Vectan required Grafs to import all of their powder line and Grafs is still sitting on some of the lessor used product.
If true maybe Vectan should re-think that sales approach. I too hope they come back to the US. I love A24 in the 7/8 oz. 12 gauge.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Vectan Powders in the USA
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:00 pm 
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If it took 2 years for Graf's to sell out of the 'popular' powders they imported from Noble Sport, I doubt that Graf's have any interest importing more Vectan powder. ROI on that investment flatout sucks. You need to turn over inventory at least 3 times a year for a product to be profitable.

Graf's, as far as I know, did not distribute the powder to very many other outlets. So it was Graf's, Powder Valley and Ballistics. In other words, not too many people even know that Vectan Powder exists.

As far as Noble Sport and their program guidelines, does anyone really believe that not selling powder to the reloading market in the USA is actually hurting them? Honestly, it is probably more of a logistics pain in the a** than it is profitable.

Think about the advertising $$$$ it would take for us dinosaurs to stop buying, Red Dot, Green Dot, Clays, 700-X, Unique, Blue Dot and a few others......it is just a bad deal for all concerned.

Right now the US market would buy every bottle of Vectan imported, until the old standby's were available again. Then Graf's would be standing there holding their hand on their a** with a bunch of powder they can't sell.......just like this last time.

Many folks overestimate the reloading market.

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 Post subject: Re: Vectan Powders in the USA
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:09 pm 
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Unfortunately, Vectan powder is one of those great little secrets that just didn't gain enough popularity to keep importing it. I'll definitely miss it once I use up the last of my supply. Back to the expensive stuff. :x


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 Post subject: Re: Vectan Powders in the USA
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:28 pm 
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IMHO Vectan was not given a fair chance. I am not blaming Grafs, but it takes a while to build a brand loyalty. Toyota did not sell a million cars their first year.
Vectan needs a different sales plan so their US retailers can import only the powders they know will sell. And "us dinosaurs" have to learn to stay with a company that supplies the reloaders as a primary customer. Depending on company's that sell us their surplus after the shell market is frustrating.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Vectan Powders in the USA
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:57 pm 
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YevetS,

The powders that we buy as reloaders from Hodgdon and Alliant, aren't leftovers. They are canister powders which are different from powders that are used, for the most part, by ammunition manufacturers.

Canister powders do not vary significantly lot to lot, if they did, there would be problems. For an ammunition manufacturer, powders can vary lot to lot as each load has to be tested and adjustments can easily be made. We as reloaders, don't have that luxury or that PITA.

What is happening is that Alliant and Hodgdon are only going to make/buy what they have historically sold. At some point this stupidity will subside and no one wants to be sitting on a bunch of stuff they can't sell, just like Graf's. No different.

I have been the guy that controlled inventory and trust me if you are the person that bought a whole bunch of s*** that doesn't sell it can be one uncomfortable meeting with the owner. Over buying/producing kills cash flow.

This is business and there just isn't enough business or profitability in the reloading market to screw up.

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 Post subject: Re: Vectan Powders in the USA
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:10 pm 
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dogchaser37 wrote:
The powders that we buy as reloaders from Hodgdon and Alliant, aren't leftovers.


I should have worded that differently. We get the powder the manufactures can produce on excess machine time. When they are done running powder for the shell manufactures and have the excess line time they make canister powders for us. We have to change our thinking and stick with companies that want to produce for us.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Vectan Powders in the USA
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:07 pm 
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so do any of you think the powder companies would be getting us powder on the shelves if they didn't make 39 different overlapping [AKA new and improved 4166 types] powders and just stuck to simple.
like maybe 5-6 simple red-dot/4895/4831 types for a while?

yeah I know about their schedules.


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 Post subject: Re: Vectan Powders in the USA
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:30 pm 
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YevetS wrote:
dogchaser37 wrote:
The powders that we buy as reloaders from Hodgdon and Alliant, aren't leftovers.


I should have worded that differently. We get the powder the manufactures can produce on excess machine time. When they are done running powder for the shell manufactures and have the excess line time they make canister powders for us. We have to change our thinking and stick with companies that want to produce for us.

Steve
I'm thinking you have no idea how powder is made. It doesn't come out of a spigot from some continuously running machine. It is made in batches, like beer, wine and some whiskey.

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 Post subject: Re: Vectan Powders in the USA
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:08 pm 
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Nebs wrote:
YevetS wrote:
dogchaser37 wrote:
The powders that we buy as reloaders from Hodgdon and Alliant, aren't leftovers.


I should have worded that differently. We get the powder the manufactures can produce on excess machine time. When they are done running powder for the shell manufactures and have the excess line time they make canister powders for us. We have to change our thinking and stick with companies that want to produce for us.

Steve
I'm thinking you have no idea how powder is made. It doesn't come out of a spigot from some continuously running machine. It is made in batches, like beer, wine and some whiskey.


I fully understand how powder is made. It is still made when the manufacturers have the time to make it. In smaller batches, so they fit it in their production schedule around the larger batches they make for the shell companies. It is all made in a machine that blends/mixes the components.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Vectan Powders in the USA
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:21 am 
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I have to laugh about all this BS that is being written about why we don't have powder......not one of us KNOWS who has contracts with who, nor the details of those contracts.....nor do we understand schedules of the powder manufacturers......or the possible delays......nor the details of getting raw materials, costs or lead times.....it is all a bunch of BS WAGS.


The real problem is greed and all for me and f*** everyone else attitudes that prevail....and yet we continue to blame the manufacturers for something that they cannot either predict or control.......that would be human nature and all it's glorious short comings.

Ever look at the seven deadly sins? pride, greed, lust, envy, gluttony, wrath, and sloth.

Greed and gluttony seem to jump out in this situation.....I guess it is just easier to blame the powder manufacturers.

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 Post subject: Re: Vectan Powders in the USA
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:32 am 
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dogchaser37 wrote:
I have to laugh about all this BS that is being written about why we don't have powder......not one of us KNOWS who has contracts with who, nor the details of those contracts.....nor do we understand schedules of the powder manufacturers......or the possible delays......nor the details of getting raw materials, costs or lead times.....it is all a bunch of BS WAGS.


The real problem is greed and all for me and f*** everyone else attitudes that prevail....and yet we continue to blame the manufacturers for something that they cannot either predict or control.......that would be human nature and all it's glorious short comings.

Ever look at the seven deadly sins? pride, greed, lust, envy, gluttony, wrath, and sloth.

Greed and gluttony seem to jump out in this situation.....I guess it is just easier to blame the powder manufacturers.
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 Post subject: Re: Vectan Powders in the USA
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:22 pm 
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have to laugh about all this BS that is being written about why we don't have powder......not one of us KNOWS who has contracts with who, nor the details of those contracts.....nor do we understand schedules of the powder manufacturers......or the possible delays......nor the details of getting raw materials, costs or lead times.....it is all a bunch of BS WAGS.

So where are all the primers??


Last edited by chips&clays on Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Vectan Powders in the USA
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:54 pm 
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I bought 4lbs of A24 two years ago to try in some 3/4oz 12ga loads but have yet to open one of the cans up. I remember it being pretty inexpensive compared to the Clays and 700X I normally use.


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 Post subject: Re: Vectan Powders in the USA
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:15 am 
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Quote:
So where are all the primers??


They are mostly ending up on Gunbroker. Plenty of them there if you are willing to shell out big bucks.

Jim


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 Post subject: Re: Vectan Powders in the USA
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:40 am 
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Once upon a time Vectan powders were available in UK at a reasonable price, although not a great deal cheaper than the US manufactured & imported ones. Latterly the company restricted availability to one importer, a shotgun cartridge manufacturer....and you can guess what happened to the Vector powder prices for the reloader in UK. I was always amazed at how cheap Vectan powder was on the US market.


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 Post subject: Re: Vectan Powders in the USA
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:50 pm 
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dogchaser37 wrote:
Graf's, as far as I know, did not distribute the powder to very many other outlets. So it was Graf's, Powder Valley and Ballistics. In other words, not too many people even know that Vectan Powder exists.

That's actually not true, Mark. Grafs was selling to Tammy at 'Connies Component' out here in Seattle when they were still in business.

Unfortunately, at that time, most people here were poo-pooing me, and the Vectan's, and so she had a tough time selling the stuff both, on line, and at the big local hoots. At the end, she was dumping it at $15/bottle.

Most people here took more joy in bashing me, the Vectans, and carrying water for Hodgdon and Alliant then they did in heeding my suggestions to buy all that you can because they watched some cheesy video's from some BS-spewing public relation spokesperson from Hodgdon, or Alliant or whatever.

I don't know how resellers work, but storing the Vectans in wharehouses doesn't take up that much space.

I remember visiting the wharehouses at Connies Components, when she got talked into dropping all other wad brands and carrying only Downrange wads, and the amount of floor space that all those wads took (with DR's stupid minimal order amount).

But again, I don't know how that business works. I do know that they are out of business.

But all is not lost. Admist the early 'Republican/Vectan' bashing days, emerged were a few smart forks here who heeded the repeated advice, and stocked up on the Vectan powders.

Even TS .com banned me because one of the Hodgdon/Alliant water-carriers over there complained about me promoting the Vectans on TS .com. I hope those persons are powder-free right now.


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 Post subject: Re: Vectan Powders in the USA
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:49 pm 
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Hi Steve,

SGW really is not known or followed by enough people to really sway the market of anything. Not in CT and certainly not here in ND.

Maybe you and a few others really look into this stuff on the internet, but for the most part, I am guilty of it too, we really don't use the web to it's utmost advantage.

Vectan is good powder, but so is every other brand with very few if any exceptions. I tried Vectan, I liked it, but that meant buying a bunch of different wads because of its density. Then Graf's stopped ordering Vectan. I asked Graf's about it well over a year ago and they said they weren't importing it any longer. The handwriting has been on the wall a long time.

For me, I buy 2 - 8 lber's of 700-X powder along with a 4 lber or two of powders that I don't use much of and normally 10,000 primers. I haven't been caught going without in 47 years and that run remains intact.

I also don't see the wisdom in tying up a bunch of money in that kind of stuff. It looks a lot better in my bank account!! :lol: :lol:

Also, I understand that you really like Vectan and you were just trying to get a lot of folks to use it, but......ummmmm.... you kinda sounded like the Today Show......you know how they beat this Covid thing every effing day for over a year? You weren't far off pushing the Vectans the same way. Just sayin'!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

{hs#

Be well.

BTW, I was able to get 5,000 RIO G-1000 primers, for the RIO hulls I have.....not bad. They work fine. Thanks for the heads up.

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 Post subject: Re: Vectan Powders in the USA
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:58 pm 
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dubob wrote:
I have some Prima V, GM3, and A0 still left that should carry me for about 12 to 18 more months.

You apparently were one of the few here who were smart enough to stock on on this great deal.

Sure loved that Prima-V in GunClubs with the crappy Noble Sport NS-686 primers :) ...

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Man, them were Happin' loads, - used to load em in old split-up, last use GC's, and STS's ...


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 Post subject: Re: Vectan Powders in the USA
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:33 pm 
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Republican wrote:
dubob wrote:
I have some Prima V, GM3, and A0 still left that should carry me for about 12 to 18 more months.

You apparently were one of the few here who were smart enough to stock on on this great deal.

Sure loved that Prima-V in GunClubs with the crappy Noble Sport NS-686 primers :) ...

Image

Man, them were Happin' loads, - used to load em in old split-up, last use GC's, and STS's ...


I was lucky enough to have a good supply of Prima V but since powder has become hard to get again I have used up all I had in my Gun Club hulls. I still have some Promo left but I have not been able to find any Promo for a long time now and I guess that they have stopped importing the Vectan powder.



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