ShotGunWorld Shotguns

It is currently Fri May 14, 2021 3:10 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Image



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Steel shot recipes for dove hunting
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:59 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:44 pm
Posts: 8
So I'm new to the shotgun shell reloading scene.
With the ammo shortage I thought id give it a try.
However its hard to find recipes that match the supplies i have so i was hoping someone could share.
these are the supplies i have (hoping someone can help with a recipe that works for dove/quail steel shot)

-Hulls
Remington Sts Unibody plastic
(i have about 100 win AA, and 100 Fed gold metal but would prefer to use the rem since i have about 2000)

-Powders
Alliant Steel
Hodgdon Clays
Hodgdon green dot
Hodgdon 700-x

-Wads
Clay buster 12S3
Federal 12s0
Remington Fig 8
TUPRW12

-Primers
fed 209
Win 209

-Shot
steel #6
steel #7


Any help would be greatly appreciated. Components are so hard to find right now, so I'm hoping there's something i can cook up with what i have.
Ive spent weeks looking at different books and websites but its hard to piece something together.




Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steel shot recipes for dove hunting
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:46 pm 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:51 pm
Posts: 2442
Location: S.E. Wisconsin
You should start your searching here http://www.alliantpowder.com/
or here http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/
since those are the 2 powders you have.

Pick the components you have from the drop down boxes and see what loads are out there.

Steve

_________________
The More Times You Pull The Trigger The More Fun You Are Having.
I repair MEC presses. PM me.
Used to be Steve Y


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steel shot recipes for dove hunting
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:07 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:44 pm
Posts: 8
@yevets thank you. I did look at those sites but the problem is hodgdon only lists steel shot recipes using their universal powder(which i dont have)

and alliant doesnt show anything that will work


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steel shot recipes for dove hunting
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:18 pm 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:52 pm
Posts: 752
Location: Puyallup, WA
https://www.precisionreloading.com/docs ... ebsite.pdf

Go to the source! Your wads dictate your recipe choices when shooting steel. TUPRW12 is your only viable wad.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steel shot recipes for dove hunting
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:05 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:56 pm
Posts: 7975
Location: Central ND
kobeloadall,

The correct advice, you probably don't want to hear.....but you don't have the correct wads or the correct powder for the job.

If you really want to use the TUWF12 wads, you certainly can but you will need filler wads and forget the Winchester AA and Remington hulls. Use the Federal Gold Medal. You will probably have to weigh every powder drop of Steel powder as it does not meter well, probably on purpose.

Here is the load:

12 ga. Federal Gold Medal hull
Federal 209A primer
36.0 Grains Alliant Steel powder
TUFW12 wad + 1/8" 20 ga. nitro card or 1/8" 20 ga. felt wad
1 oz. steel shot
1492 FPS 9,900 PSI

_____________________________________________________________________

You are basically looking for a steel shot target load.

The Winchester and Remington hulls just aren't what you want, unless you are looking for a 3/4 oz. load.

Stick with the Federal Gold Medals here is a nice load:

12 ga. Federal Gold Medal hull
Winchester 209 primer
23.0 Grains Universal Powder
TUWSBL24 - Precision Reloading
7/8 oz. steel shot
1,332 FPS 9,700 PSI

There is a nice variation of the this load using CCI 209 primers and 24.0 grains of Universal. 1404 FPS 10,600 PSI.

There maybe some lighter loads for steel shot, using either Gualandi or Baschieri & Pellagri steel shot wads (the TUWSBL24 is a Baschieri & Pellagri steel shot wad), and using the other 3 powders you have. If there are, I don't know where to get GOOD data for such loads.

The above loads are from Precision Reloading manuals.

I have used both of the loads above. They fit and they work.

_________________
Mark

aka Mr. Tactful. Common sense no longer appears to be common.
NSCA#544066


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steel shot recipes for dove hunting
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:27 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:09 pm
Posts: 183
kobeloadall,

To me, an ounce & an eighth is ALOT of shot for flimsy morning dove.
If I was in your shoes, I'd drop the shot weight to 7/8's & use some fillers to insure a good crimp. There are public recipes @ PR & I'd use the A-Steel powder.
I'd also go with #6 shot @ the get-go.
..pete

Forgot to mention to use the Rem hulls,


Last edited by pjmx on Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steel shot recipes for dove hunting
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:54 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:56 pm
Posts: 7975
Location: Central ND
pjmx,

I agree with you on the 7/8 oz. load, but the OP isn't going to be able to use TUPRW12 wad. Precision only lists 1 oz. and 1 1/8 oz. loads for that wad.

They do list the TUWSBL24 with Steel powder using 13/16 oz. of steel shot.

Thanks for mentioning that they have loading data online, free for the asking.

_________________
Mark

aka Mr. Tactful. Common sense no longer appears to be common.
NSCA#544066


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steel shot recipes for dove hunting
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:42 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:43 am
Posts: 797
Straight wall hul (Ched , Rio or Top Gun) Ched 209 , Green Dot , wad Mec ot PT1253
7/8 oz of 6's
1 1/4 oz Mec Bar drops 7/8 oz of steel Note 19/20 grs for 1200 /1300 fps
This is what I use , maybe it will work for you ? I also like Sam 1's


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steel shot recipes for dove hunting
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:13 am 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:32 pm
Posts: 775
Edited- Looks like the Remington Nitro Mag hull on Alliants website is the yellow basewad hull.

If you want to use some of your powders other than Alliant Steel, I think you will need to buy different wads. Some of the PT wads and the MG42 wads have recipes with standard target type powders. I'm sure there are some loads with Green Dot with different wads.

Otherwise I'd go with the Precision Reloading data.

Attachment:
Remington Steel load Precision Reloading.PNG


I've shot a similar one ounce loading with 23 grains of ASteel. It's a mild load that kills pigeons.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. -Gustav Mahler


Last edited by Hal4son on Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steel shot recipes for dove hunting
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:34 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:56 pm
Posts: 7975
Location: Central ND
Remington Nitro Mag hulls are a 2 piece hull with a plastic basewad. Not the same or a replacement for the Remington unibody hulls.

_________________
Mark

aka Mr. Tactful. Common sense no longer appears to be common.
NSCA#544066


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steel shot recipes for dove hunting
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:46 am 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:32 pm
Posts: 775
Thanks Dogchaser. I was sitting here looking at the Alliant data vs. the Precision data. Figured out it couldn't be the same due to 50% extra powder drop (13 grains) and similar PSI ratings. I deleted that screenshot and edited my post.

_________________
Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. -Gustav Mahler


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steel shot recipes for dove hunting
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:38 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:04 pm
Posts: 10
I used to have to load #7 and #8 steel at my local club (shooting over water in bay area).

I used remington hulls (sts and nitro), figure 8 wads (1 1/8 wads hold about 3/4 oz of #7 steel), win primers, and about 18gn of 700x.

I shot about 6 or 7k of these out of a kolar max lite sporting and beretta xtrema2, and never had any problems.

This is about a 1300 fps load, and will reach out fine for doves.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steel shot recipes for dove hunting
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:10 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:28 am
Posts: 1259
You have good hulls, primers, powder, and shot. All you need is correct wads.
For dove, you can stuff all the #6 or #7 shot you need in a 2.75" 12ga hull, so you need steel shot wads for that.

I kill a ton of dove shooting my 28ga with 3/4oz of #8 shot, at 1300fps. I observe that to be effective to about 45 yds, beyond that I get feathers or wounded flyers. When I adjust my ballistics program to tell me how much gel penetration depth that gives me at 45yds, I get 0.90 in. This is a rough approximation so I can see how a steel load will compare for lethality. Of course if I hit the head I can get further, but with body hits I'd say about 1000 dove with #8 shot field results backs this up decently.

THEREFORE, to match this acceptable load I need the same pellets, 308, and a penetration depth of 0.9".
There are 313 #7 steel pellets in 3/4oz, so that will match a 28ga load.
You need 1oz of #6 steel to get 313 pellets.
You need 1-1/4oz or #5 steel for 302 pellets.
So those are your minimums. Since you CAN fit more 6 or 7 steel in a 2.75" 12ga, you might as well, to increase lethality by hoping for head/neck shots, because you won't get NEAR the penetration range for body shots.

Penetration-- you're just not going to match #8 lead at 1300fps.
#7 steel at 1600fps gives 29 yds, #6 steel at 1600fps gives 36yds, #5 steel at 1475 gives 42 yds... that's about all you can push 1-1/4oz steel at in a 3" 12ga hull.

So, there are 8 recipes for the TUPRW12 in Alliant and Lymans 5th, for 9/8oz or 1oz.

Currently BPI has the TPS 2.75" wad in stock, order here:
https://www.ballisticproducts.com/TPS-1 ... o/3227701/

BPI has 5 recipes for that wad in 2.75" 12ga, using LongShot powder.

Answer:
1. your best bet is to purchase some more steel wads, when able. CSD118/TUWSBL32, CSD100/TUWSBL28, CSD078/TUWSBL24 are the B&P wads when sold by BPI/Precision. Or the Gualandi MG42 i.e. BP STS, or the Gualandi "LBC43" or CLBC. Any of those would work, I'd be leaning towards the 1-1/8oz steel or 1oz steel sizes, so any but CSD078.
2. Using the wad you have, TUPRW12, your best option is to use the Fed GM hulls, there are 3 good recipes at Alliant or Lymans 5th. 1465 1oz, 1500fps 1oz, or 1425fps 9/8oz.
3. There is only one recipe for Rem STS/GC hulls with your supplies, Lymans's 5th, 1380fps 1oz.

All those recipes above are with Steel powder.

For GreenDot, 700x, Clays, there are about 20 recipes. All are 7/8oz steel or less, all in Fiocchi hulls, except for 1 FedGM and 2 Cheddite recipes. All use VP53, VP51, TPS35, CSD078, or MG42 wads. All loads are available on the VPDATA wadsheets from BPI you can get with a phone call, or google that online. Or BPI Load of the Week free archive (LOTW), or the LD12-MG42 wad sheet from BPI. You can get 1365 to 1400fps with the VP53 (PT1253) wad.

I think I have every 12ga steel recipe published, plus a ton of personal tests, in spreadsheets, most of it copyrighted proprietary data you have to purchase the source book for. After looking at this for a long time, there are so many solutions it's eye watering... if you had more wads. So start looking for those.
Ravenanme has a great solution above for GreenDot, but those 700x and Clays are about the same in those source docs if you can get the VP53 i.e. pt1253 wad.

The broadest easiest solution with the absolute most recipes is to get a 9/8oz steel wad (CSD118/TUWSBL32, LBC43, SAM1 2.75") and load up in a straight wall hull (cheddite, Fiocchi, Rio, Fed with plastic bottom) with about 32gr steel powder and 9/8oz shot (or less, your call). This recipe is supported in various wad/hull/primer combos across about 45 published recipes. You'll get around 1400 fps and a simple easy load with 6s or 7s that will be the cheapest, easiest, best fitting, most lethal dove load you can make in a 12ga 2.75" package.

Good luck ;)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steel shot recipes for dove hunting
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:23 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:43 am
Posts: 797
Dave in AZ wrote:
You have good hulls, primers, powder, and shot. All you need is correct wads.
For dove, you can stuff all the #6 or #7 shot you need in a 2.75" 12ga hull, so you need steel shot wads for that.

I kill a ton of dove shooting my 28ga with 3/4oz of #8 shot, at 1300fps. I observe that to be effective to about 45 yds, beyond that I get feathers or wounded flyers. When I adjust my ballistics program to tell me how much gel penetration depth that gives me at 45yds, I get 0.90 in. This is a rough approximation so I can see how a steel load will compare for lethality. Of course if I hit the head I can get further, but with body hits I'd say about 1000 dove with #8 shot field results backs this up decently.

THEREFORE, to match this acceptable load I need the same pellets, 308, and a penetration depth of 0.9".
There are 313 #7 steel pellets in 3/4oz, so that will match a 28ga load.
You need 1oz of #6 steel to get 313 pellets.
You need 1-1/4oz or #5 steel for 302 pellets.
So those are your minimums. Since you CAN fit more 6 or 7 steel in a 2.75" 12ga, you might as well, to increase lethality by hoping for head/neck shots, because you won't get NEAR the penetration range for body shots.

Penetration-- you're just not going to match #8 lead at 1300fps.
#7 steel at 1600fps gives 29 yds, #6 steel at 1600fps gives 36yds, #5 steel at 1475 gives 42 yds... that's about all you can push 1-1/4oz steel at in a 3" 12ga hull.

So, there are 8 recipes for the TUPRW12 in Alliant and Lymans 5th, for 9/8oz or 1oz.

Currently BPI has the TPS 2.75" wad in stock, order here:
https://www.ballisticproducts.com/TPS-1 ... o/3227701/

BPI has 5 recipes for that wad in 2.75" 12ga, using LongShot powder.

Answer:
1. your best bet is to purchase some more steel wads, when able. CSD118/TUWSBL32, CSD100/TUWSBL28, CSD078/TUWSBL24 are the B&P wads when sold by BPI/Precision. Or the Gualandi MG42 i.e. BP STS, or the Gualandi "LBC43" or CLBC. Any of those would work, I'd be leaning towards the 1-1/8oz steel or 1oz steel sizes, so any but CSD078.
2. Using the wad you have, TUPRW12, your best option is to use the Fed GM hulls, there are 3 good recipes at Alliant or Lymans 5th. 1465 1oz, 1500fps 1oz, or 1425fps 9/8oz.
3. There is only one recipe for Rem STS/GC hulls with your supplies, Lymans's 5th, 1380fps 1oz.

All those recipes above are with Steel powder.

For GreenDot, 700x, Clays, there are about 20 recipes. All are 7/8oz steel or less, all in Fiocchi hulls, except for 1 FedGM and 2 Cheddite recipes. All use VP53, VP51, TPS35, CSD078, or MG42 wads. All loads are available on the VPDATA wadsheets from BPI you can get with a phone call, or google that online. Or BPI Load of the Week free archive (LOTW), or the LD12-MG42 wad sheet from BPI. You can get 1365 to 1400fps with the VP53 (PT1253) wad.

I think I have every 12ga steel recipe published, plus a ton of personal tests, in spreadsheets, most of it copyrighted proprietary data you have to purchase the source book for. After looking at this for a long time, there are so many solutions it's eye watering... if you had more wads. So start looking for those.
Ravenanme has a great solution above for GreenDot, but those 700x and Clays are about the same in those source docs if you can get the VP53 i.e. pt1253 wad.

The broadest easiest solution with the absolute most recipes is to get a 9/8oz steel wad (CSD118/TUWSBL32, LBC43, SAM1 2.75") and load up in a straight wall hull (cheddite, Fiocchi, Rio, Fed with plastic bottom) with about 32gr steel powder and 9/8oz shot (or less, your call). This recipe is supported in various wad/hull/primer combos across about 45 published recipes. You'll get around 1400 fps and a simple easy load with 6s or 7s that will be the cheapest, easiest, best fitting, most lethal dove load you can make in a 12ga 2.75" package.

Good luck ;)


You Always seem to be Spot-On !
7/8 oz of 6's in a 12 ga SW hull with a .025 choke is murder on Both Morning and
Ring Necks as far as I can hit'em , and that's a lot farther than 36 yds !


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steel shot recipes for dove hunting
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:30 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:06 am
Posts: 3826
Location: UK, England, Britain
https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto ... 8&t=406098

7/8oz and faster powders like reddot = +1

i did loads with vectan A1 (its similar to greendot), the data came back telling me to load faster powder.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steel shot recipes for dove hunting
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:18 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:56 pm
Posts: 7975
Location: Central ND
My 2 cents.

Dove hunting is like target shooting, lots of shells. Steel powder, if you load it correctly, needs to be weighed.

Also, doves do not require 1 1/8 oz. of steel shot. 7/8 oz. of #6 or #7 steel is plenty to get the job done.

Just because the OP has certain components, doesn't mean they are the correct components for the job at hand.

_________________
Mark

aka Mr. Tactful. Common sense no longer appears to be common.
NSCA#544066


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steel shot recipes for dove hunting
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:27 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:06 am
Posts: 3826
Location: UK, England, Britain
Those easy steel reloads are just too handy.

I pressed out tons of These shells in little to no time really. With #7 itll be fast.
Ive reloaded 4s, #2s and some BB, for a special project.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steel shot recipes for dove hunting
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:33 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:43 am
Posts: 797
dogchaser37 wrote:
My 2 cents.

Dove hunting is like target shooting, lots of shells. Steel powder, if you load it correctly, needs to be weighed.

Also, doves do not require 1 1/8 oz. of steel shot. 7/8 oz. of #6 or #7 steel is plenty to get the job done.

Just because the OP has certain components, doesn't mean they are the correct components for the job at hand.


Yep breaking targets from the fence with 1 oz of steel 6's tells me Doves would have
a hard time dodging a payload like that . But with 7/8 oz being so simple with a 1 1/4 oz
Mec lead shot bar dropping 7/8 of steel , why not ?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steel shot recipes for dove hunting
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:11 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:56 pm
Posts: 7975
Location: Central ND
Ravenanme,

Not sure what the question is.

_________________
Mark

aka Mr. Tactful. Common sense no longer appears to be common.
NSCA#544066


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steel shot recipes for dove hunting
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:45 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:28 am
Posts: 1259
Ravenanme, I know you shoot a lot of pigeon and dove out there in CA, so have great field knowledge of steel. What range would you say 7/8oz of 6s works well to? Trying to calibrate real world with gel numbers for steel and dove. Thx!

Mark, yeah his supplies aren't perfectly suited. I tried to give him a short term solution for what he has in stock, and ideas for better solutions when he can actually get more wads, with a bunch of options for the more common steel 9/8oz size wads as welk as 7/8oz. Like I said, there really are a zillion loads that work, since you only need 3/4oz of 7s to match 28ga pellet count, and a tightish choke will let you get head/neck with that.

Since I dove hunt with 28ga, Im more of a minimalist... though a LOT of folks do shoot 1-1/8oz lead at dove! if I had to use steel I'd lean towards smallest least recoil load I could, myself, probably 7/8oz of 6s to start.




Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Chipper21, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot], pjmx, Road Man, valencman


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group    - DMCA Notice