ShotGunWorld Shotguns

It is currently Fri May 14, 2021 1:10 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Image



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: reloading 12 gauge for gas semi auto
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2021 1:11 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 3:24 pm
Posts: 264
So with a 10 year old who is getting more interested in shooting clays and the sparse availability of factory ammo I dug out my 900g the other day and took inventory of what I have for components

Last time I loaded I was loading 1oz loads for break guns using 700x. I had also used clays and WST.

Now of course my powder choices are limited but I do have some 700x still and plenty of wads and primers to limp along and hopefully get me through the year.

I have plenty of AA hulls both new style and old style and a fair amount of remington STS hulls as well

Any tips for loading for the semi auto? I am thinking maybe certain powders will burn cleaner and cause me less headaches? Or do you all feel I can have good success with a standard recipe using those components.

Also last time I loaded was during the time that AA was transitioning to the new style hulls. I believe load data was the same but I recall some different performance but do not recall what it was. I plan to just keep them seperate at a minimum for the time being.

Thanks in advance




Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: reloading 12 gauge for gas semi auto
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2021 3:57 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:32 am
Posts: 53
I have two 1100 trap guns, both cycle reliably with 7/8 ounce loads pushed by 17 grains of Promo or Red Dot when my gun is clean. Not knowing the type of gun or the exact load you will be using I would say you need to try some reloads and find out. In my experience 700x leaves less residue than the Alliant powders. Back in the late 80's I switched to Red Dot because 700x produced more smoke which I did not like when shooting registered targets.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: reloading 12 gauge for gas semi auto
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2021 8:05 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 3:24 pm
Posts: 264
he will be using a beretta outlander 300


7/8 from an 1100 that sounds like you either keep them spanky clean or thats a hot load I always thought 1100s were picky


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: reloading 12 gauge for gas semi auto
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2021 8:11 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:14 pm
Posts: 21601
Location: Just South of Indiana Gun Club!
I use Promo, and Red Dot exclusively in both Remington hulls (STS, Nitro, Premier, Gun Club, Game load), and WWHS hulls. My semi-autos will shoot 7/8 ounce reloads, and 3/4 ounce reloads reliably until they get dirty, which they don't, I clean them after every time shooting. Like my grandfather drilled into my head (If you have time to shoot it, you have time to clean it).

cdb

_________________
NRA Life Member
CZ/Huglu Shooter..912, 912 Tom Knapp Edition, 920, Canvasback Deluxe, 452 FS, and Trek Domone SL 6 Disc Bicycle Rider
Remembering My Friend 2fewdaysafield. The Huglu Drifter, Have Huglu, Will Travel


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: reloading 12 gauge for gas semi auto
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2021 8:47 am 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:20 pm
Posts: 23529
I have used/still use Clays, Extra-Lite and Titewad. I reload a 3/4oz 12 gauge load running at 1275; burns clean and reliably works the gun with minimal recoil

_________________
The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory, Aldo Gucci

Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience, George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: reloading 12 gauge for gas semi auto
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2021 10:46 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:59 pm
Posts: 1476
Location: Soda Springs, Id.
you gotta get those lighter loads scooting to keep the gas volume and pressure up enough to operate the semi's.
I know 1 ounce at 1150 will 100% run my 3" & 3-1/2" Winchesters flawlessly
3 drams of 9/8 ounce will launch hulls 15' away, something the guy standing next to you might not appreciate.

if I dropped to 7/8 or 3/4 ounce I'd have to experiment a bit to make sure what will and what won't operate my gun 100% of the time [until it's bone dry dirty anyway]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: reloading 12 gauge for gas semi auto
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2021 5:47 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:49 pm
Posts: 352
My Beretta 390 and A400 light both run 100% reliable with 7/[email protected] (17 grs /Promo/ Rem or Win taper wall hull). My 1909 Rem Model 11 with friction rings set to light also 100% with same loads.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: reloading 12 gauge for gas semi auto
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 5:09 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:21 pm
Posts: 737
In the same spot you are in just a couple years ahead . Started my grandson at 11 on a 391 20g & 3/4 oz loads. At first light charges either Green Dot because I had a lot of it or 20/28 my preferred 20G powder. Both loads I use in SxS guns. It cycled fine until the gas ports fowled then would not feed 100 %. Bumped the charges up to Alliant minimum published . 20/28 burned cleanest and had fewer fails to feed. Hotter loads much cleaner & it rarely failed, problem was hot 3/4 oz 1250 FPS as much recoil as factory Gun Club 7/8 oz, more than AA factory Low Recoils. Ended up using Alliant recommended 7/8 oz loads & 20/28. Don’t have to clean it often & it always cycles.

He’s 13 now and switched to a new A300 Outlander sporting 12 G . Same thing it won’t reliably cycle my 7/8 oz light SxS loads using Red Dot. Minimum recommended Red Dot 1 oz loads it’s never failed. Yesterday he ran through 100 7/8 oz 16.5 G Red Dot loads without any failures barrel & ports clean as they can be. Probably the load I will settle on. The powder makes a difference & Extra Lite may be better, with shortages have to use what I have & have plenty of Red Dot.

Couple of things learned. Gas Autoloaders need clean ports & it takes pressure to burn clean. Many, not all, light shot loads need velocity to meet pressure requirements. May be 1 oz 12 G is better but so far it’s running fine on 7/8 oz. & considering shot prices will keep it on 7/8

Other thing it’s easy to increase gun weight on Beretta Gas guns. The 20 was 6 lbs 8 oz. added a Briley cap & lead in the buttstock up to 7 lbs 8 oz. it’s a very mild shooter now. The wood stock Outlander weighs 7 lbs 4 oz. Plan to add Briley Mag cap & buttstock lead up to at least 7 3/4 & possibly 8 lbs. Gun Weight key to minimum recoil & get the balance right kids handle heavy guns fine.

Last thing I run the two auto loaders on GunClub hulls. Easy to replace from trash cans when they get lost. Save my AA hulls for SxS guns & different hull makes load identification easy.

Bass


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: reloading 12 gauge for gas semi auto
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 5:42 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:21 pm
Posts: 737
Re reading probably ought to qualify “clean” My Gas 20 G Beretta run on dirty loads needed a complete strip down. Gas cylinder piston & spring removed ports in the barrel & cylinder reamed trigger group removed & air gun blown. It’s not a quick job. Clean burn load it’s a bore & outside wipe, that’s all.

Bass


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: reloading 12 gauge for gas semi auto
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 9:41 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 10:54 am
Posts: 2163
Location: Western Carolina - foothills to the Great Smoky Mtns!
oneounceload wrote:
I have used/still use Clays, Extra-Lite and Titewad. I reload a 3/4oz 12 gauge load running at 1275; burns clean and reliably works the gun with minimal recoil


Hi, oneounce! Is ^that^ with an 1100? Or, a Beretta gas semi-auto?

I’m reading this thread and ask with interest as I have budding grandkids (hopefully) transitioning from air guns and rimfire to clay targets in the future and, in addition to having XL a and Clays on-hand, we own one each 1100 and AL390 (and also Benellis but, I already know they won’t cycle 3/4oz 12ga loads :?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: reloading 12 gauge for gas semi auto
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 9:57 am 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:20 pm
Posts: 23529
Beretta A400s; the blue smurf gun and the 3.5" Xplor Unico. I used t own a 28 gauge 1100 and my reloads worked that just fine as well

_________________
The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory, Aldo Gucci

Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience, George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: reloading 12 gauge for gas semi auto
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 10:21 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 10:54 am
Posts: 2163
Location: Western Carolina - foothills to the Great Smoky Mtns!
oneounceload wrote:
Beretta A400s; the blue smurf gun and the 3.5" Xplor Unico. I used t own a 28 gauge 1100 and my reloads worked that just fine as well


That 400 is a keeper and I regret not snapping one up when they first came out. (Such a fine gun in fact an old squad mate who’d sold his 400 to another buddy just traded that same fellow a Silver Pigeon o/u combo 20/28ga bbl’ed set, to get his old 400 back! :shock: )


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: reloading 12 gauge for gas semi auto
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 11:49 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 2:38 am
Posts: 1831
Location: San Jose, CA
For my son's loads I use 1 0z Red Dot at 1300 fps, and Game Club hulls. His SX3 throws them a mile, so I'll likely lower speeds/payload to see if it will still cycle. I should have started lower, but had a 600 set up for semi auto use sporting loads and little time to do testing.

The hulls you have are ideal.

I load up 7/8th Euro hulls for myself, and because of the thinner material, they just don't cycle consistently with an auto, as the occasional shell ends up with a bad finish and a slight mushrooming.

_________________
I like boomsticks!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: reloading 12 gauge for gas semi auto
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 3:13 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:56 pm
Posts: 7975
Location: Central ND
Winchester AA hull (CF or HS)
Winchester 209
18.5 grains 700-X
CB-107812 or CB1100-12 wad
7/8 oz. lead shot
1,325 FPS 8,400 PSI

I have also used the same load with 17.5 grains of 700-X

This load is from the IMR (not Hodgdon) Manual.

Run the 1100 wet using Breakfree CLP and go have some fun.

_________________
Mark

aka Mr. Tactful. Common sense no longer appears to be common.
NSCA#544066


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: reloading 12 gauge for gas semi auto
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 6:28 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:43 am
Posts: 797
slowshooter wrote:
For my son's loads I use 1 0z Red Dot at 1300 fps, and Game Club hulls. His SX3 throws them a mile, so I'll likely lower speeds/payload to see if it will still cycle. I should have started lower, but had a 600 set up for semi auto use sporting loads and little time to do testing.

The hulls you have are ideal.

I load up 7/8th Euro hulls for myself, and because of the thinner material, they just don't cycle consistently with an auto, as the occasional shell ends up with a bad finish and a slight mushrooming.


The recipe dogchaser is showing works really well in my 391 Techny and when I
load euro hulls I Gaep finish them , never a feed issue !


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: reloading 12 gauge for gas semi auto
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 9:17 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 3:24 pm
Posts: 264
Thanks for all the information everybody

Bass thanks for the details I’m probably going to pickup a a300 sporting for myself and let him use the chokes for now in the standard a300

He seems to be handling the recoil very well I think it’s because it’s a touch big for him so he has to focus on shouldering properly. And I don’t want to add weight to it as I am more concerned with his physical strength and endurance not getting tired out 80 rounds into a shoot. I saw my cousin shoot great his first 50 in trap but his second was always worse and I’m sure it was because he was using such a heavy gun

Again it’s all give and take just have to find what works for you


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: reloading 12 gauge for gas semi auto
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 10:04 pm 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:20 pm
Posts: 23529
nitis wrote:
Thanks for all the information everybody

Bass thanks for the details I’m probably going to pickup a a300 sporting for myself and let him use the chokes for now in the standard a300

He seems to be handling the recoil very well I think it’s because it’s a touch big for him so he has to focus on shouldering properly. And I don’t want to add weight to it as I am more concerned with his physical strength and endurance not getting tired out 80 rounds into a shoot. I saw my cousin shoot great his first 50 in trap but his second was always worse and I’m sure it was because he was using such a heavy gun

Again it’s all give and take just have to find what works for you


Depending on age, stature and condition it also easily be the pounding from a lot of shells in a short time; a reason you see many older trap shooters with release triggers to help with the flinch from years of high volume heavy loads.

_________________
The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory, Aldo Gucci

Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience, George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: reloading 12 gauge for gas semi auto
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 4:36 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:21 pm
Posts: 737
You guys are right about gun weight tiring for kids & recoil doing the same. It’s a compromise. Thing about the Beretta gas guns or pumps you can modify easily as they grow. My grandson started with a 870 wingmaster & youth stock, then put the full size stock back on.

Next gun my 391 20 factory weight then weighted it as he grew. 6 1/2 to 7 1/2 helped smooth out his swing. 13 now 5’11 & 165 lbs he’s ready for the 12G outlander. No telling how tall he will end up, Outlander can grow with him. Weight LOP Drop Cast everything’s adjustable

Problem now is keeping him supplied with shells. Some ways the shortages help. Slow down and plan every shot.

Bass


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: reloading 12 gauge for gas semi auto
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 5:48 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:12 am
Posts: 5949
All powder is dirty. Run above 9000psi and some aren't as dirty as others. I run 17.5 grains of 700X in a 12 gauge auto and it cleans up some.


Last edited by lt0026 on Tue May 04, 2021 5:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: reloading 12 gauge for gas semi auto
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 5:50 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:04 pm
Posts: 670
Some of it is going to be trial and error. using Remington hulls, CB0178 wads, and Clay Dot I find I need 1oz and 18gn to reliably run my 1100s, but my SX1 will run on 7/8 and 16gn.

The 1148s will run on 7/8, but need 18+ gn to cycle. The Weatherby element will run a little less, but not quite down to 16gn. And the Winchester 50s will actually cycle 3/4 with 16gn, but have to be spotless clean and well lubed.

All of those are fairly low pressure, but with both the 1100s and the SX1s I clean them after shooting. The inertia/recoil guns go longer between cleanings.




Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Google Feedfetcher, Irish Red & White, Life of Riley, Majestic-12 [Bot], Pettifogger1, pjmx, scrugneysgundogs, Shooting Dave, skeetsit, Terrapin, thelaserman, ysr_racer, zxcvbnm


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group    - DMCA Notice