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 Post subject: Re: 28” gauge lengthen chambers to 3”
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:02 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:56 pm
Posts: 120
I will weigh in. I can’t help but think a 3” chambering in a 28ga would be a good thing for us bird hunters. Those who opt to only shoot 2 3/4” are not going to sacrifice anything. The advantage I see with the 3” is a bigger payload with larger shot on bigger birds. From my perspective with 28 ga, you give up some horsepower for a gun that handles quicker and carries like a pixie stick but there is no free lunch. If it’s worth it or not is a personal thing. Is it worthwhile to me? Yes. Hell I often take it a step further and follow my dogs with a 410.

The 28 handles and carries similar to a 410 while it’s ability to take game is closer to a 20. It fills the niche it is in pretty well. With a 3” shotshell it would fill it even better. To the posters that advised shooting a 12, you are in the wrong place. This is the sub-gauge forum.
Willie T




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 Post subject: Re: 28” gauge lengthen chambers to 3”
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:06 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:36 pm
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Location: Endless Mountains of PA
Gentlemen,

I have to admit using the B&P 28 gauge shells in my modern L.C. Smith double gun, my 28 kills Grouse, Woodcock & Quail just as well as my original L.C. Smith 20 gauge guns. Of course the original pre 13 L.C. Smith has 2 9/16 chambers, and shoots 2 1/2" shells. IMO there is no need for a 3" 28 gauge shell with the new B&P 28 gauge 2 3/4 shells being available. Great hunting shells!

Dave B - L.C. Smith Man

Modern 28 gauge L.C. Smith double gun, with a nice Potter County, Pa Grouse, taken with 2 3/4" B&P 28 gauge shells.

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 Post subject: Re: 28” gauge lengthen chambers to 3”
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:10 pm 
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Hi,

Again, the only reason to go to a 3" shell is to be able to shoot a more decent payload of larger steel shot. If all you intend to use is lead or a more costly non-toxic shot, then 2 3/4" is all you need. (Why did we bother with going to 2 3/4" shells anyway. No one should need anything longer than a 2 1/2" shell! Am I right??!!).

But shooters/hunters are often pretty poor at deciding what is cost effective or not. We often pay $1000's for a gun and even more on our dogs. Then we scrimp and buy the cheapest shells we find. All the while complaining about how "bad" they are.

Now that California has legislated non-toxic shot for all hunting, I wonder what state will be next? Of course most of it sold will be steel. A 3" chamber is starting to look pretty good in California.

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 Post subject: Re: 28” gauge lengthen chambers to 3”
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:47 am 
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Location: Northwest
There is a term for a sub-6lb 3" 28ga: It's called a light, small framed 16ga. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: 28” gauge lengthen chambers to 3”
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:32 pm 
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Birdbrained wrote:
There is a term for a sub-6lb 3" 28ga: It's called a light, small framed 16ga. :wink:


Hi,

It's still not a 28ga. :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: 28” gauge lengthen chambers to 3”
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:58 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:36 pm
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Location: Endless Mountains of PA
Dalee100,

I have to admit you make a good argument, however I use my light 28 gauge double guns even with B&P shells to give the Grouse and Woodcock a greater advantage. The B&P shells are not quite what the 20 gauge happens to be. If I have 3" shells, I might as well be using a 20 gauge with magnum shells. This kind of defeats just why I am using my 28 gauge guns in the 1st place. Now if you want to shoot Ducks with the 28, the 3" shells could be of some use. For Grouse, Woodcock & Quail the 2 1/2 or 2 3/4 shells are just fine. Heck my pre 1913 L.C. Smith 20 gauge and 16 gauge guns are chambered for 2 1/2 shells, only my 12 gauge guns are 2 3/4 & 3". Tell me again why I need a 3" 28 gauge double gun.

Pie Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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 Post subject: Re: 28” gauge lengthen chambers to 3”
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:12 am 
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Hi,

Then I would tell you that you personally don't need a 3" shell for a 28ga. But just like having a 3" chambered 20 or 12ga, it would not prevent you from using your favorite 2 3/4" shells. I reload for my 28ga, so I don't need a 3" chamber either. I can load premium non-toxic shells you can't even dream of buying. But many people don't reload.

Us hunters are not an overly bright lot - we spend $1000's on a gun, more $1000's on a dog, and more money yet on a bunch of goodies that really don't matter much. And then turn around and complain about the cost of shells. This is why steel shot is so popular. And why you can buy a 3 1/2" chambered 12ga. and soon 3" chambered 28ga. guns will probably be as common. And if manufacturers don't make them, the 28ga will die out because hunters/shooters won't buy them - just like the 16ga.

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 Post subject: Re: 28” gauge lengthen chambers to 3”
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:19 pm
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HTL pellets negate the need for a 3" 28 gauge as well as a 3" 20 gauge because the lethality of those pellets in 2 3/4" loads are...well, if a 1 ounce load of HW-15 in #7's will kill large race Canada geese DRT @55+ yards why use something that the primary factor is simply to cost more to use? To purchase a 28 gauge and then carp about the cost of ammunition is (IMO) a case study in duplicity.

If light weight is one of the prized attributes of the 20 & 28 gauge(s), then why is it such a wonderful idea in firing a (20 gauge) 3" magnum cartridge with a recoil of ~31% than the 20 gauge 2 3/4" one ounce load and ~59% more recoil than the 3/4 ounce 28 gauge load. Not to mention the 3" 20 gauge load also has ~31% more recoil than the 1 ounce 16 gauge load and ~26% more than the 1 1/8 ounce 12 gauge load.* It's a bruiser all the way 'round.

HTL pellets have now made the 16 gauge your "magnum" duck gun.

* https://www.chuckhawks.com/shotgun_recoil_table.htm

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 Post subject: Re: 28” gauge lengthen chambers to 3”
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:55 am 
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mea culpa wrote:
HTL pellets negate the need for a 3" 28 gauge as well as a 3" 20 gauge because the lethality of those pellets in 2 3/4" loads are...well, if a 1 ounce load of HW-15 in #7's will kill large race Canada geese DRT @55+ yards why use something that the primary factor is simply to cost more to use? To purchase a 28 gauge and then carp about the cost of ammunition is (IMO) a case study in duplicity.
Shooters complain all the time about ammo costs. You have, I have, everyone has. And cost is why steel shot is the most popular non-toxic shot sold. And to tell someone you can't enjoy a 28ga because you are too poor is gate keeping at it's best. We need to welcome more shooters and hunters, not tell them they can't afford it. Unless you want to see the 28ga go the way of the 16ga.

If light weight is one of the prized attributes of the 20 & 28 gauge(s), then why is it such a wonderful idea in firing a (20 gauge) 3" magnum cartridge with a recoil of ~31% than the 20 gauge 2 3/4" one ounce load and ~59% more recoil than the 3/4 ounce 28 gauge load. Not to mention the 3" 20 gauge load also has ~31% more recoil than the 1 ounce 16 gauge load and ~26% more than the 1 1/8 ounce 12 gauge load.* It's a bruiser all the way 'round.

I'm no fan of 1oz 28ga loads either. But honestly, would having a 3" chambered 28ga prevent you from using your favorite 2 3/4" load? The only reason to complain about it is fear of something new. Had such an attitude prevailed, it would have prevented the 2 3/4" shell from being adopted. Because a 2 1/2" shell is all you need right? Who needs that extra recoil from 3/4oz?

HTL pellets have now made the 16 gauge your "magnum" duck gun.

* https://www.chuckhawks.com/shotgun_recoil_table.htm


Face it, lighter than lead shot are the cheaper choices, even bismuth and some of the tungsten/polymers. So larger shot sizes are needed. And that takes more room in the hull. My favorite 3/4oz, (by weight), #5 bismuth load occupies the same volume as 7/8oz of lead. And I get near the same pellet count as 3/4oz of #6 lead. It's very effective on wild roosters and ducks over decoys. But, it's a bit of a tight squeeze to get it all in a 2 3/4" hull. It would sure fit better in a 3".

Benelli already offers the 3" 28ga. Some limited supplies of ammo is out there. And as more states go the way California has, (complain all you like, but it will happen), hunters will increasingly buy that 3" chamber for their 28ga. It won't be fast or over night, but it will happen if the 28ga is to survive.

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 Post subject: Re: 28” gauge lengthen chambers to 3”
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:19 pm
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D,

Methinks you missed the point in that HTL pellets have made the small(er) gauges relevant for many hunting situations where nontoxic pellets are mandated. Lead pellets are the next option where allowed but (IMO) steel pellets are not an option for the 28 gauge shotgun as you’re trying to make a lightweight load of an inferior pellet work in actual field applications. Nowhere and no way did I discourage someone from owning and using a 28 gauge shotgun rather, expressed my field experience based opinions on what pellet types are best suited for it. You seemed to prefer sugar coated exhortation over giving people what is my factual based field experience. Owning a 28 gauge shotgun isn’t in the same (cost wise) as a 20 gauge so if you aren’t committed to the backside cost of such, don’t go there.

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 Post subject: Re: 28” gauge lengthen chambers to 3”
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:14 pm 
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You seem to miss the point. As I've repeatedly pointed out, shooters will choose the cheapest ammo that gets the job done. Are you willing to buy HTL shot to go dove hunting? Or shoot clays (The next step in environmental shooting regulations)? I sure can't afford to shoot the heavy tungsten/polymers or TSS for doves or ducks. Perhaps you can. According to you I should scrap my 28ga because I can't.

But I can afford to reload bismuth. And what I've learned from my field experience in shooting bismuth for nearly 20 years now in many different guns, (including a muzzleloader), on a lot of different game is that I need a bit larger shot size and a bit more velocity, (and factory loads don't get you there in the 28ga). And then I get lead like performance for less money than the HTL specialty loads you can buy. But it takes takes about all the volume of a Cheddite hull to get my preferred load into. Maybe a 3" hull might be easier to reload?

And finally again, how would a 3" chambered 28ga prevent you from shooting your favorite 2 3/4" load?

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 Post subject: Re: 28” gauge lengthen chambers to 3”
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:09 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:36 pm
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Location: Endless Mountains of PA
Dalee100,

Not so sure about the next step in environmental regulations being the complete elimination of all lead shot. States like Pa are probably not going to go along with it. Your points about the difference in size shot when loading Bismuth are right on the money however. I also believe steel shot is the same way, even though the 7's work well on Grouse & Woodcock, I saw the #6's woking better for shooting Woodies.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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 Post subject: Re: 28” gauge lengthen chambers to 3”
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:06 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:51 pm
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Location: Phoenixville PA
Hopefully you are correct about PA not going along on full conversion to steel shot, Dave. Lead works so much better for shooting upland game, and in the uplands, there is no significant effect on birds and animals.

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 Post subject: Re: 28” gauge lengthen chambers to 3”
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:00 am 
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Cost: I am loading a 1 ounce recipe of HW-15 for ~$1.85 per round. Have tried Bismuth, on and off since the 1998 season and always walked away because of the same disappointment with the results. Still have the better part of 15 pounds of the stuff that’s now relegated to paperweight status. Steel pellets in my 28 gauges might work on the skeet field or hunting situations where shots were <25 yards as beyond that, the pattern runs out of density and thus lethality for wing shooting. I really enjoy the 28 gauge but also recognize the parameters it operates within and is why HTL pellets are used in various wingshooting situations where lead isn’t a option.

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 Post subject: Re: 28” gauge lengthen chambers to 3
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:13 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:27 pm
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I’m back in a couple of 28ga guns and will load #6/7 bismuth for Ditch Parrots over pointers.
Here, in ND Non-tox is only required for upland birds on Waterfowl Production Areas (WPA)
I‘Ve had decent success with 20ga steel over pointers so a 7/8 oz Bismuth load in the 28 should do ok. I’m only doing this to carry a 5-1/2 lb gun instead of a 6-1/4 lb 20ga. Silly I know, but the 28ga fits me better in light garb. By late season a 6-1/2 lb 12ga with 1-1/8 oz of bismuth will work better in a full hunting coat.
It comes down to how well I can shoot any of these in hunting garb that works in 70degF plus sept sharptails to late Dec Pheasants. Can’t wait.


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 Post subject: Re: 28” gauge lengthen chambers to 3”
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:47 am 
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Location: Nova Scotia,Canada
Non tox shot is coming.Some areas may allow lead longer than others,but it is coming.Heck,they even want to take the lead out of rifle ammunition now a days.

The 28 gauge must be able to adapt or it will die, with the changing time.Yes ,there are other options than steel ,but steel is the least expensive.

Nothing wrong with a 3 inch 28 gauge chamber.For those who do not wish to use it,they do not have to.They can stay with their 5/8 ounce 2 1/2 inch shells if they like.Those who want a 28 gauge 3 inch can use it .I do not fully understand the resistance to change, that you can use or not use at your own will between a 28 gauge shorter or longer shell.What works well for one and their type of use, may not work so well for another and their type of use.For myself having more opitions in the 28 gauge is not a bad thing.:)Just my opinion.:)



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