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 Post subject: Belgian Liege 12 gauge SXS
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:07 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:27 pm
Posts: 62
Location: Texas
I just picked up a Liege 12 gauge SXS, and while it shoots great, I encountered something new.

Shooting Remington Nitro 27's, the gun breaks open smoothly and easily.

However, shooting cheap low brass Winchester it takes quite a bit of effort to break the gun open.
Not quite break it open over my knee, but close.

I inspected the hulls and found not signs of any issues, so I have no idea why this might be.
It's not really an issue as I have plenty of the Nitro 27's, but I am curious.

TIA




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 Post subject: Re: Belgian Liege 12 gauge SXS
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:54 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:08 am
Posts: 2426
Location: Central NH
If you have a caliper, measure the rims of the Nitros, and the Wins. I'll bet the Wins are noticeably thinner than the Remington shells.

Winchester is notorious for OOS dimensions of their shells. I think what is happening is that upon firing the Winchester shells are moving back and sticking on the firing pins.

I have a Ljutic trap gun that has issues with AA's at times wrt opening. On those shells the firing pin hit is noticeably deeper than other shells.

My opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Belgian Liege 12 gauge SXS
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:12 pm 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:20 pm
Posts: 22978
Nitros are brass, the cheap Winchesters are steel. Steel hulls have an issue with expanding and not retracting as readily; especially if there is a slight roughness or burr in the chamber.

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 Post subject: Re: Belgian Liege 12 gauge SXS
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:24 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:08 am
Posts: 2426
Location: Central NH
oneounceload wrote:
Nitros are brass, the cheap Winchesters are steel. Steel hulls have an issue with expanding and not retracting as readily; especially if there is a slight roughness or burr in the chamber.


True, and if he was having an ejection, or extraction, issue the steel base would likely be the problem. He claims he's having trouble opening the gun. I've never heard steel based hulls being the cause. Have I missed something?


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 Post subject: Re: Belgian Liege 12 gauge SXS
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:42 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:27 pm
Posts: 62
Location: Texas
I appreciate all of the replies on this. I don't have a caliper on hand, unfortunately.

It's easy enough to avoid using the cheaper Winchester loads in this gun, so that's always good.

I'll try some other loads I have on hand and if those give problems as well I'll just stick to the Nitro 27's in this gun. I'm must plinking with it and it's great fun.


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 Post subject: Re: Belgian Liege 12 gauge SXS
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:47 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:14 am
Posts: 214
Location: Ontario, NY
Mike,

I'm a little late to the party and you've found a solution but I thought I would offer my perspective.

I have the same problem with one of my old A. H. Fox doubles, an early A grade 12 gauge made around 1907.

Using loads with Winchester primers, the gun is hard to open after firing. Not so with loads with Remington primers.

With a Fox, you can dry fire the gun with the fore end and barrels off. At this point, I measured how far the firing pins extend into the standing breech. Each one about 0.060 inches.

With one of my other Fox doubles, that measurement is about 0.050 inches. That gun will shoot and open just fine with Winchester primers.

With a Fox, the firing pins are at the tip of the hammers and are not spring retracted, etc.

By the way, you can easily put the gun back together and cock the hammers. Not so with some other doubles, L. C. Smith for example. With those, you need a tool, a screw driver works, to cock the hammers before you can put the barrels back on.

But you found the solution. Use shells with Rem primers.

I reload and found that in addition to the harder Remington primers, which are more expensive and right now, are hard to get, Cheddites and Fiochhi work fine to make the gun open easy. And they are less expensive and usually available.

If you have a way to measure how far into the breech your firing pins extend, you might find them extending too far. Maybe not an easy thing to fix, so yeah, use Remington ammo if you can find it.

Good luck and I hope this helps a little.

Jolly


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 Post subject: Re: Belgian Liege 12 gauge SXS
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:19 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:27 pm
Posts: 62
Location: Texas
Exactly, Remington primers/loads all shoot with no problems at all, but other brands do result in a bit more force needed to break open the gun.

I've had this gun out quite a bit now, and I really like shooting it.




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