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WHY SHOTGUNS "FIT" OR DO NOT FIT DIFFERENT SIZE SHOOTERS

182K views 72 replies 37 participants last post by  Rollin Oswald 
#1 ·
The information/advice below is from my book, Stock Fitter's Bible - Second Edition.
If you have questions about anything, email me at rollin@stockfitting.com or call me at 920-464-0124 (Wisconsin).

Warning: This is a long thread. You may want to have a drink and a snack handy.

Shooters come in many shapes and sizes. There is little difference between the stock dimensions of most guns. For that reason, one size does not fit all. To a great extent, a gun's stock dimensions determine the shooting form elements (gun mount, stance, head/neck/body posture) that shooters use. Some elements of form are much better than others. (Explanations to follow)

Fact: Men and women are shaped differently.
Fact: Women are often smaller than men as are many younger shooters.
Fact: Women have proportionally slightly longer necks than men.
Fact: The average woman and smaller youths do not have the strength of average men.
Fact: Most guns have stocks designed for men who are 5' 10" tall and weigh 165 pounds.
Fact: Women of all ages are often visually cross dominant. Their dominant eye (the one that focuses more quickly) is often opposite their handedness (If they are right-handed, their dominant eye i9s often their left eye).
Fact: A shooter's height will require different stock dimensions before the gun will fit him or her. (explanation to follow).

Male eye dominance can change toward middle age and can causes serious problems when shooting with both eyes open (the preferred way of shooting moving targets).

The above are reasons that guns do not often fit many shooters. "Fit" describes how well a gun's weight and stock dimensions match a shooter's size, shape and strength to allow a good shooting form to be used. (Shooting form describes the stance, gun mount, weight distribution and the head, neck and body posture used by the shooter.)

Common Problems:

- The stocks and barrels on shotguns are too long for many women and youths. That makes the guns feel too heavy because so much of the weight is forward. It also makes the guns very awkward to swing and can quickly tire the hand supporting the gun.

- The "comb" (top surface of a stock on which the cheekbone is snugly placed) is often too far below the level of the gun's rib for smaller shooters. When the gun is mounted to the shoulder, the receiver or action can block the shooter's vision along the rib when the cheek is on the comb. This is a serious problem and should be corrected as quickly as possible.

- The pitch (angle formed by the recoil pad and the rib (approximately 90 degrees) is often wrong for many shooters, especially women, youths and barrel-chested men. The bottom of the recoil pad can stick out too far and jabs the shooter in the chest. Not only is this painful but the wrong pitch will also increases the recoil-driven barrel-rise during recoil, often to such an extent that the cheek is injured by the rising comb, at times, even when the cheek is making snug contact. If the pitch is wrong, it should be corrected.

Tall men with longer than average neck lengths, often due to their height, must lean their necks forward to put their cheek on the comb. This results in their having to look "up" to see targets. It narrows their field if vision and promotes visual fatigue.

When the neck needs to be leaned forward, there is also a tendency to raise the head during swings to return the neck to a normal posture.

The vast majority of coaches recommend shooting with a natural and erect head and neck posture. This is impossible when the neck must be leaned forward and should be corrected.

The pistol grip

- The size (radius or distance of the inside of the grip to the trigger) of the grips on stocks is often too large for the smaller hands of women and smaller youths. They must slide their hand up and forward on the grip, which then requires them to pull up rather than straight back on the trigger.

This is problematic because it is harder to pull the trigger up to fire the gun than it is to pull it back. As a result, the timing of shots is upset (knowing exactly when the gun will fire). Here is a possible solution: http://www.addagrip.com.

- Guns are sometimes too heavy for smaller shooters to mount and to swing easily and accurately. It may not feel heavy at first, but it will seem to gain weight during an afternoon of shooting. A gun that is too heavy can also cause smaller shooters to shoot with too much weight on the back foot, which will significantly increase the recoil that is experienced.

- Many smaller shooters complain that the forward wood on a gun, the forearm, is too large to grip easily with their smaller hands. This feeling is partially due to a misunderstanding of the purpose of the forearm. It should not be used to swing the gun left and right, but instead, be used only to support the weight of the gun as the upper body rotates at the waist and hips to swing the barrel left and right.

Ideally, the angle formed by the barrel and an imaginary line across the shoulders, should not change during swings. Arm swinging the gun is not good because it can easily cause misalignment of the eye with the rib.

Most smaller shooters can shoot most shotguns, regardless of their weight, barrel length and gauge. But when a gun does not fit, many will suffer excessive felt recoil, are likely to tire quickly and will have difficulty hitting targets of any type. Put simply, shooting will not be nearly as enjoyable as it would be if the gun fits the shooter.

Generally speaking, to shoot well, shooters need to use a good gun mount, stance (placement of the feet) as well as good body, head and neck posture. As was mentioned earlier, this is known as the shooting form. A good form promotes shooting success, reduces felt recoil (kick) and delays fatigue.

In order to use a good shooting form however, a gun's stock dimensions and its weight must match the size, shape and strength of the shooter.

Good Shooting Form

The shooter should stand with the body rotated no more than 45 degrees from the anticipated direction of the target. .

To see clearly along the gun's rib and to help keep the eye aligned with the rib both vertically and horizontally during swings, it is best when both the head and neck are in a natural, erect, posture (repeated because it is important). The neck should not be leaned forward and require the cheek to be lowered to the comb.

Nor should the neck be leaned toward the stock, sometimes done to vertically align the eye with the rib.

Gun weight

The gun should be able to be mounted comfortably and be easily supported by the forward hand during a full day of shooting.

Keep in mind however, that heavier guns have less felt recoil than lighter ones. The easiest way to reduce recoil is to shoot shells with a reduced weight of shot. 3/4 or 1 ounce for 12 gauge shells moving at velocities of 1100 or 1150 feet per second (fps) rather than 1200 fps. These shells are quite commonly available. They significantly reduce recoil compared to shells with 1 1/8 ounce of shot with a velocity of 1200 fps.

When the shooter is new to shooting or weighs considerably less than 160 pounds, shooting the lightest and slowest shells is a good idea, regardless of the gauge and weight of the gun being used. There are even subsonic velocity shells available but they are much less common than 1 1/8 ounce, 1200 fps shells, which until recently, were the most common 12 gauge clay target load.

Smaller gauge gun for a new shooter?

A 20 gauge rather than a 12 gauge gun is sometimes considered for new and smaller shooters. However, 20-gauge guns usually weigh less than 12 gauge guns. For that reason, 20 gauge shells with an equal weight of shot, moving at an equal velocity will kick considerably more in a lighter 20 gauge gun than they will in a 12 gauge gun.

When choosing a gun, one goal is to find one that can be comfortably handled and repeatedly and consistently mounted during a normal day's shooting. It should be no lighter than required unless the gun will be used only for hunting, when carry-weight becomes more important than smoother swings and reduced felt recoil.

The best advice for shooters, regardless of their size, shape and familiarity with shotguns is to make the gun fit when it does not. Since most guns have stocks designed for men (who are 5' 10" tall and weigh 160 - 165 pounds), this will often require changing the gunstock dimensions.

The easiest way to get a gun to fit is to visit a good stock/gun fitter. With luck, there will be a good one near you. But a warning: Like any other profession, stock fitters vary widely in their expertise. Just because someone says he can fit stocks, check his reputation before setting an appointment.

Good stock fitters can change a stock's dimensions so they will allow you to use a good shooting form. The best fitters will also teach you a good shooting form and then change your stock's dimensions so it can be used when you return home. (You must remember to use it, though.)

How Well Does it Fit? The following will give you an idea of how well a gun fits:

The stock's "pitch" - the angle formed by the recoil pad or butt plate, and the rib, approximately 90 degrees:

Checking the pitch: As the gun is being mounted and brought back to the shoulder with the barrel raised to a normal shooting height (Get someone to help support the barrel if necessary.), the whole recoil pad, top to bottom, should make simultaneous contact with the shoulder.

If the bottom "toe" of the recoil pad (or butt plate) makes contact with your shoulder very much before the top of the pad, the pitch on the stock is wrong for you and shuld be corrected.

Stock length - length of pull (LOP):

With the gun mounted (ideally, with the head and neck in a normal, erect posture) and with the finger on the trigger, the nose and the trigger-hand thumb should be separated by 1 to 1.5 inches.

The "Drop at the comb" dimension:

As you may recall, the comb is the top surface of the stock upon which the cheek is placed when shooting. This drop dimension describes the distance of the comb below the level of the gun's rib.

With the gun mounted with snug cheek pressure on the comb, the shooter should be able to look along the surface of the rib or, look very slightly down-onto the surface of the rib when the gun will be used for trap shooting with its rising targets.

Recoil pads

Regardless of the type of clay target shooting for which the gun will be used, it should have a good, relatively soft recoil pad. The effects of recoil are best avoided whenever possible and a good recoil pad will reduce felt recoil and make shooting more comfortable.

Barrel length (LOP)

The barrel length of hunting guns is usually no more than 28". The barrel length of many guns designed for clay target shooting is greater: 30" for pumps and semi-autos, 30" or 32" for over & under guns and 34" for single shot, break open, trap guns.

Shotgun types:

Of the different types of shotguns, semi-autos are considerably softer shooting (have less felt recoil) than other designs. Of the semi-autos, gas operated semi-autos are softer shooting than inertia driven semi-autos. Be sure to consider semi autos if reduced felt recoil is important.

Choosing a gun

If at all possible, shoot a gun before you buy it. If this is not possible, be aware that most stock dimensions can be altered to fit most shooters (with the possible exception of the grip). Although knowledgeable stock fitters can fit most shooters, so can most gunsmiths if you tell them what dimensions require changing and by how much.

Some guns come with an adjustable comb and a few with stocks that are designed for smaller shooters. These somewhat rare guns come much closer to fitting women and youths out of the box than do guns designed for "average" men.

Considering everything before buying a gun will reap big rewards, not the least of which is money saved by trading guns less frequently while trying to find one that can be shot comfortably and offers more rapid improvement with shooting experience.

Take your time and consider everything. The type of gun (semi-auto, over & under, pump, single shot) makes a difference not only in the initial cost but in the shooting comfort and even resale of the gun. Shoot, or at least handle a gun before you buy it.

However, it is very beneficial to know what a good shooting form is so you can better judge how well a gun fits before you buy it. This knowledge will also let you know what stock dimensions will need to be changed to make the gun fit.

Questions to ask yourself:

How did the recoil pad make contact with my shoulder? (Did the bottom toe of the recoil pad make contact before the top of the pad?)

With my cheek snugly on the comb, am I able to look along or slightly down-onto the surface of the rib?

Do I need to lean my neck forward and lower my cheek down to the comb? If I did, could I raise my gun mount on my shoulder just a little to reduce the neck lean and cheek lowering? (Allow no more than one inch of the recoil pad to extend above the collar bone.)

Ask someone to check the distance between the tip of your nose and the second knuckle on your trigger-hand thumb. Is it 1.5" or less? (The closer to 5' in height you are, the less separation that is needed, down to about 3/4" given a consistent gun mount.)

How heavy does the gun feel? Does it seem balanced between your two hands? If not, you may be able to move your forward hand farther forward or back to improve the balance. Could you mount the gun 25, 50 or more times during a morning or afternoon's clay target shooting without becoming too tired to shoot without strain and noticeable fatugue?

Take your time deciding

Don't be rushed by a salesman (or your significant other). This will be your gun. You want to feel good, both physically and emotionally when you are shooting it.

Your attention to fit details when shopping for a gun will improve your chance of getting the best gun, the one that is right for you, which you will enjoy shooting for years to come.

So, take your time and do your best to make it happen the first time. You will save money and reduce frustration by avoiding trading guns, trying to find one that "shoots better."

Good luck in your search to find the right gun.
 
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#52 ·
I read upland bird hunters can get away with a gun that doesn't fit due to the angle of the shot. If you took your gun that you shoot well on American upland and use it for an English driven pheasant hunt, you probably not be happy. Gun fit is more unforgiving on high shots.

Would this be mainly a LOP problem?

Thanks.
 
#53 ·
Crossing shot said:
I read upland bird hunters can get away with a gun that doesn't fit due to the angle of the shot. If you took your gun that you shoot well on American upland and use it for an English driven pheasant hunt, you probably not be happy. Gun fit is more unforgiving on high shots.

Would this be mainly a LOP problem?

Thanks.
Yes and no. (How's that for a simple but meaningless answer?)

(I'm not sure what you mean when you write that hunters" can get away with" guns that don't fit because of the angle of their shots but I believe that guns that fit allow a better shooting form, which results in greater shooting success regardless of the flight paths of the targets.)

High English pheasants create a LOP problem but it may be caused by an error in the shooting form that is used, particularly, how the muzzle is pointed up at driven pheasants.

A mistakenly simple but I believe a relatively common way of pointing a gun at a high target is to simply pivot the gun up on the shoulder. The problem that results is the that cheek would slide forward on the stock. That in turn would raise the level of the eye relative to the rib with guns having field stocks, which have rising combs. That could cause the shot to go over the target.

A more effective way to point a gun at a high pheasant is to arch the back. When it is possible, it would aid in maintaining cheek placement on the comb. Obviously, this would not be sufficient on a bird that was directly overhead but it would help.

Also, not all hunters are capable of arching their backs enough to make a significant difference in keeping their cheek in place on the comb. (Maybe, these hunters should consider eating fried chicken.)
 
#54 ·
Trapperjohn01 said:
Yes, I've heard and read of this excersize, and have been trying it - both on others' targets, and while driving on the freeway. And when I consciously apply it on the field, the target breaks. Consistency, ah, there's the rub.

Looking forward to getting the Insights into Sports book. If it's anywhere as good as The Stock Fitters Bible, it'll be money well spent.
Insights book has about 30 pages of eye exercises and they do help. We tend to use our big muscle groups to see...someone calls your name off to the right and you turn your whole body or head to see them when you could have used those six little eye muscles....or you search the sky by waving a shotgun around to see that second target instead of moving the eyes first, then the gun. Few people actually exercise their eyes, train them. Good book.
 
#57 ·
So I'm with Steeler nation im 6'4, have a pretty long neck and very long arms and high cheek bones. I've been using "the Bob Brister" method and building up the combs of my guns with mole skin and electric tape. I also seem to like a LOP of 15inches or a little more. Two questions maybe three? I seem to be in the minority but a sizable one, were I like my skeet& game guns to shoot at little hight 60/40 is fine 70/30 is better. I feel this prevents me from having to "loose the bird" by passing the muzzles directly through it. Is this just an issue from poor fit or just a way some prefer and others don't, meaning do I need a high comb? Or is my gun fit so bad that it's got me seeing stuff others don't? 2nd im 26 years old and pretty athletic but not overly bulky in the chest, does my high mean I still need to reduce drop at toe? 3rd i shoot all my clays from an Olympic skeet style position. My "clay gun" has very long LOP and a very high comb. I constantly tell people they need more LOP and comb hight. But I myself prefer a little less LOP on my game guns? Am I crazy is there a difference? Thanks so much
 
#58 ·
abwolter said:
So I'm with Steeler nation im 6'4, have a pretty long neck and very long arms and high cheek bones. I've been using "the Bob Brister" method and building up the combs of my guns with mole skin and electric tape.
Building up the comb is the only to compensate for your high cheekbones.

I also seem to like a LOP of 15inches or a little more.
below the rib and/or the length of your neck and the height of your gun mount on your shoulder also affects the right LOP.)

This is because when you need to lean your neck forward to put your cheek on the comb, that lean requires extra stock length to maintain the nose/thumb separation necessary to keep the latter from bashing the former during recoil - 1" to 1.5" is the usual separation.
What you probably need is a unit called a "pad adjuster" like the ones made by Jones and 100-straight (and there are several others).

Pad adjusters allow the whole recoil pad to be lowered, as much as one inch. You should also consider mounting your gun with as much as an inch of the recoil pad extending above your collarbone. That along with a pad adjuster would allow you to shoot with a natural/normal head and neck posture. You would be able to shoot with your pupils in or nearly in the vertical centers of their sockets, which is much better than having to look "up" when you shoot.

Two questions maybe three? I seem to be in the minority but a sizable one, were I like my skeet& game guns to shoot at little height 60/40 is fine 70/30 is better. I feel this prevents me from having to "loose the bird" by passing the muzzles directly through it. Is this just an issue from poor fit or just a way some prefer and others don't, meaning do I need a high comb?
[When you mount the gun and you are looking right along the surface of the rib with no surface visible, the gun probably shoots 50/50. How high a gun shoots is a personal preference of the shooter and is most commonly changed by changing the height of the comb (the drop a the comb dimension, which is the distance of the comb below the rib).

With skeet targets rising very little, some shooters prefer a flat shooting gun while others prefer a gun that shoots a little high, 60/40 for example, so they never need to cover the target with the muzzle to provide the slight vertical lead necessary to break targets.


Or is my gun fit so bad that it's got me seeing stuff others don't? 2nd im 26 years old and pretty athletic but not overly bulky in the chest, does my high mean I still need to reduce drop at toe?
If I am understanding correctly, your primary fit issue other than the height of the comb, is your needing to lean your neck forward to put your cheek on the comb, which could be reduced or eliminated with a pad adjuster and a higher gun mount.

3rd i shoot all my clays from an Olympic skeet style position. My "clay gun" has very long LOP and a very high comb. I constantly tell people they need more LOP and comb height. But I myself prefer a little less LOP on my game guns? Am I crazy is there a difference? Thanks so much
I'm not sure what you mean here. Telling people that they need more LOP and a higher comb strikes me as odd. LOP was covered earlier and a higher comb simply means that the POI of the gun rises, which may or may not be beneficial.

With a shorter LOP, game guns are a little easier to mount, especially if the gun mount is not perfected by practice. If you wear heavier clothing when you hunt than you do when you shoot skeet, a LOP a quarter-inch shorter is a good idea.

Something else you might want to check is the pitch on your stock. Pitch is the angle formed by the recoil pad or butt plate and the rib, close to 90 degrees. The most common pitch problem is the pointe bottom part of the recoil pad (the toe) sticking out too far.

This is not good for a couple of reasons: When hunting, it promotes the toe catching on clothing during gun mounts. When shooting skeet, the toe may jab your shoulder and if the pitch is more out of whack, barrel (and comb) rise during recoil is increased, sometimes enough to cause "cheek slap<" which is the comb impacting the cheekbone during recoil.

You can check the pitch by mounting your gun with the barrel raised to a normal shooting height. If the pitch is right for you and the gun is brought back to your shoulder, the "whole" recoil pad, "top" to bottom will make simultaneous contact with your shoulder. (Quotation marks were used because if you mount the gun with the recoil pad extending above your shoulder, the "whole" pad will not contact your shoulder.)
 
#60 ·
I'm happy to hear you like the book, Tim.
 
#62 ·
Azraz said:
Rollin,
Bought and read your Bible, great information. I did make some adjustments on my fully adjustable CG, now I need it to stop snowing and get a little warmer to try it out. I am so sick of this winter!
Ron
I'm glad you like the book, Ron.

Eventually, the east coast will get the weather we have in Wisconsin today - mid 50s, and it is expected to be "warm" all week. It appears that spring may have sprung.
 
#63 ·
hi, im very new to firearms of any type. im going to purchase a shotgun for home defense. i have no intention of hunting or target shooting. i know how to size the shotgun etc from reading much of the info here. what im trying to get are recomendations for the brand of shotgun and the correct munitions for home defense. we live in new york state where the criminals have rights and the victims have none. i have every intention of taking an NRA class to insure i know how to handle and respect the shotgun i buy.
 
#64 ·
David,

You would probably get more information if you opened a new thread in the "Tactical/HD Shotguns" forum farther down the index list.
 
#65 ·
The funny thing about shotgun fit is that most guns feel just fine to me when I first hold them and then put them up to my shoulder. "This fits fine". I'll say. I'll never buy a gun that feels awkward, so all of my guns should be fine, right? Wrong.

Guns vary a little here and there. One is a tad longer, one might have some cast, one a thicker stock and another a higher comb, but I have a few guns that out shoot all of the others and not by a little bit. So fit matters. However, what actually makes a good fitting gun is still a bit of a mystery to me.
 
#66 ·
Maybe this will help: A gun that fits allows the shooter to use the shooting form (stance, gun mount, weight distribution & head/neck posture) which. allows shooting to his or her full potential.

Fit can affect the consistency of the gun mount (very important) and the likelihood that the eye will remain in the same place relative to the rib during swings so the POI does not change from shot to shot.
 
#67 ·
I'm with Rollin but will take it a step further.

No need to get too "tactical" a look at what most LEO's use.

Get a Remington Police pump, good used Wingmaster, Ithaca M37 Defense, Mossberg 500, or Browning BPS with an 18.5" to 21" barrel. I use a BPS with a 26" barrel which works fine for me.

I prefer standard wood field stocks. Some guys like them slightly shorter. You certainly don't need bayonet mounts, heat shields or collapsible stocks.

Personally I think the M37 Defense is the best new home defense shotgun available.
 
#68 ·
Hey Rollin, I'm looking forward to reading your book as soon as it arrives...

In the meanwhile, I've got a question.
I've had an adjustable comb installed, and I can finally cast off at comb.
I can also adjust the butt pad to give me a small cast off at heel.

However, I've got a little gap between mid bead and end bead, that's (as I suspect), making me shoot a bit high.
Would you suggest dropping my comb, or dropping my butt pad (therefore raising my drop at heal, to adjust for height?

Either way, I'm wanting to fine tune, but don't know which one to adjust. I suspect that neither will dramatically change my positioning or comfort..

Thanks.

Thanks.
 
#69 ·
Pijetro said:
Hey Rollin, I'm looking forward to reading your book as soon as it arrives...

In the meanwhile, I've got a question.
I've had an adjustable comb installed, and I can finally cast off at comb.
I can also adjust the butt pad to give me a small cast off at heel.

However, I've got a little gap between mid bead and end bead, that's (as I suspect), making me shoot a bit high. You are correct.

Would you suggest dropping my comb, or dropping my butt pad (therefore raising my drop at heal, to adjust for height? Lowering your comb would cause your gun to shoot lower. (If you would like to know the exact relationship between comb movement and POI (point of impact - where the center of the pattern will impact), email me at rollin@stockfitting.com and in the subject line, put "POI calculator."

I will reply to the message with a calculator attached. However, you need Microsoft's Excel software on your computer to use it. If you don't have Excel, let me know and I will direct you to another shooting website that features the calculator and has a link to download Excel.

Moving the recoil pad horizontally helps align your eye horizontally and can reduce the need to lean or turn your head toward the stock. It helps compensate for wide shoulders and/or, a stance that faces targets very directly. If you lower the recoil pad with the adjuster, it can allow a more naturally erect head and neck posture.


Either way, I'm wanting to fine tune, but don't know which one to adjust. I suspect that neither will dramatically change my positioning or comfort. Depending on your height, weight and shooting form that you use, there may be a significant improvement in both your positioning and shooting comfort as well as a rise in your scores. (It's all covered in the book.)

Thanks.

Thanks.
You are welcome.
 
#70 ·
Great post Rollin! Thank you.
I think, form sometimes takes on an interesting dimension if your are wild bird hunting over a pointing dog where-by the target(s) is not exiting from an accurately predictable source and flying in a predictable or linear trajectory. I'm not alluding to the actual mounting procedure as much as I am shoulders & feet.
I have one heck of a time getting upland hunters to "square up". Because they don't know where a bird or covey will fly, they need to increase their odds by squaring up their shoulders/feet somewhat, which allows a more natural swing-through whether left or right. That said, squaring up can actually shorten the effective LOP, etc. Some bird hunters have horrible "rifle-shooting" form which is a significant handicap for the wild bird hunting I do. This cant is also restrictive. If you are right handed and get a right-to-left bird, you often end up cork-screwing yourself which more-often-than-not translates into a miss behind the bird.
 
#72 ·
This entire thread is a great read and very informative.

I am very much a novice at sporting clays and admit that I only became interested after my son bought a Beretta OU and got me to go with him. I have been using my 1981 Remington 1100 with a 28" modified choke barrel. I have now decided to purchase an OU for me and am enjoying the hunt for a new shotgun.

As an avid golfer, who knows a thing or two about fitting golf clubs, I have often wondered why there isn't a static measurement system for shotgun fit similar to what Ping Golf developed years ago (and somewhat duplicated by other golf OEMs). Would certain static physical measurements get you close to a "fitted" shotgun or at least eliminate some models?

Obviously a dynamic fitting where you actually shoot the shotgun at a target, or get to pattern it, would be best. With golf clubs you typically do a static fitting and then a dynamic fitting with a lie board test, launch monitor, and then hit balls on a range whenever possible. The problem is I can hit and test nearly any golf club with a variety of shafts, lie angles, grips, etc. However, I haven't been able to shoot every shotgun I'd like to try.
 
#73 ·
Terp,

The problem with a static test is that to make it useful, a shooter must know the best shooting form to use. Shooting form consists of the gun mount, stance, weight distribution, as well as the head, neck and body posture used by a shooter.

To complicate matters further, shooters vary widely in their size and shape.

That makes a total of three variables, stock dimensions, shooting form and shooter conformation; a change in or the poor fit of one or more elements of each can affect one or more elements of the other two.

Golf isn't too much different. Golfers vary in size and golf swings vary as well. A set of clubs for a golfer using a conventional swing will not fit one who uses a single plane swing.

One set of clubs, like one set of stock dimensions do not fit everyone.

The 1100 has a set of stock dimensions that fit more shooters than any other gun I am aware of except the Remington 870 Wingmaster, which uses the same stocks.

There is a significant chance that the over & under that you get will not fit and therefore shoot as well as your 1100, assuming that it fits you well and allows you to use a good shooting form.
 
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