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 Post subject: Re: Mossberg Maverick 88 Mcarbo light primer strikes?
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 1:01 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:56 pm
Posts: 803
It looks like mine is fixed. To review, I cobbled up a slightly weaker firing pin spring, that by wildass guess is about half as strong as the original. Installed it, tested with primed cases, and it gave really deep dented primers. Today I shot 100 targets, using factory STS, Estate, Winchester universal, and reloads with Noble sport 688 primers. All primers were deeply dented, no puny looking dimples at all. All 100 fired. It would appear from this that the overly strong firing pin spring was the culprit in my gun. By the way, it still has the Mcarbo springs in the trigger. I might shoot it again tomorrow and the day after, but maybe not, as it appears to me to be entirely cured, and I usually shoot a Rem V3 at targets these days.

I still have the original firing pin spring set aside, but from my experience that spring will NEVER go back in my gun unless I take a coil off of it. I think taking one coil off and giving it an overall length of just 1/16 inch less than standard will probably do wonders at making the gun more reliable on firing, just my wildass guess.

Mcarbo maybe should include a new firing pin spring in their trigger package. Actually they could probably eliminate the new hammer spring if they put in a reasonable firing pin spring then maybe that stronger hammer spring would not be at all needed. I got fail to fire with the stock and replacement Mcarbo hammer springs, but more missfires with the standard spring, like maybe one in 25-50.




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 Post subject: Re: Mossberg Maverick 88 Mcarbo light primer strikes?
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 12:53 am 
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Joined: Sun May 05, 2019 1:45 pm
Posts: 22
Daddybro wrote:
If the gun is well worn and used, it could definitely be a headspace issue causing the misfires. Parts wear, and maybe your locking bolt or notch in the barrel is now out of spec. The Winchester model 12 has a collar to adjust to keep lockup tight as the gun wears. Remington offers oversized locking bolts to take up the slop of excessive headspace. The problem is very similar to revolvers which develop sporadic ignition due to what’s called cylinder endshake. It’s when the cylinder develops excessive fore and aft movement from heavy usage. The fix is to use washers to take up the slop and force the loose cylinder back closer to the recoil shield and firing pin so it can make full contact with the primer. If you send the gun to mossberg I’ll bet they either replace the locking block due to wear, the barrel due to locking notch wear, or both in the best case scenario situation. The firing pin spring on a mossberg 500/Maverick 88 is STOUT. I’m certain there’s nothing wrong with yours. You can try a new hammer spring, maybe even a new hammer too if it’s mushroomed and worn (won’t hit the pin correctly). Those don’t work it’s the lockup. I’m almost willing to bet on it.

That makes a lot of sense, I may go ahead and call mossberg and see what they think and if they'd like to look at it. My problem is that it has only misfired twice in the last couple hundred rounds I've shot so it's hard for me to say it's definitely fixed even if I were to shoot several boxes of shells through it. What do you think about the fact the 590a1 has the double spring?


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 Post subject: Re: Mossberg Maverick 88 Mcarbo light primer strikes?
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 1:01 am 
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Joined: Sun May 05, 2019 1:45 pm
Posts: 22
Ulysses wrote:
Ajax12 wrote:
I understand what you mean, I try and make sure to be a little bit rough when pumping any pump shotgun, mainly because of the possibility of short stroking. One thing I'm thinking of doing is pulling the shot and powder from a few shells so it's just a primer and testing with those to see how deeply dented the primers are without recoil setback affecting the primer dent depth. And swap out the hammer spring and repeat the test. Does that sound like a good idea or a waste of time?


It couldn't hurt anything as long as you're careful and safe. It might tell us something or might not. All it can cost is a couple dollars worth of ammo and your time. It might be very informative. Let us know how the test goes.

OK I ran that "test" with 8 rounds that I had pulled everything out except the primers and they all showed good looking dents in the primers. Nothing like the light taps that showed up on the live shells that didn't go off. If it were a spring issue I'd think that it'd show consistently light strikes, I don't know. I'll try and post the pictures of the shells. The 4 shells on the right are from the original mossberg hammer spring and the 4 on the left were fired using the mcarbo spring. Edit: I can't figure out how to post the picture. It's not very useful anyway because they all look the same so posting is kind of pointless.


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 Post subject: Re: Mossberg Maverick 88 Mcarbo light primer strikes?
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 1:05 am 
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Joined: Sun May 05, 2019 1:45 pm
Posts: 22
JoeCool wrote:
It looks like mine is fixed. To review, I cobbled up a slightly weaker firing pin spring, that by wildass guess is about half as strong as the original. Installed it, tested with primed cases, and it gave really deep dented primers. Today I shot 100 targets, using factory STS, Estate, Winchester universal, and reloads with Noble sport 688 primers. All primers were deeply dented, no puny looking dimples at all. All 100 fired. It would appear from this that the overly strong firing pin spring was the culprit in my gun. By the way, it still has the Mcarbo springs in the trigger. I might shoot it again tomorrow and the day after, but maybe not, as it appears to me to be entirely cured, and I usually shoot a Rem V3 at targets these days.

I still have the original firing pin spring set aside, but from my experience that spring will NEVER go back in my gun unless I take a coil off of it. I think taking one coil off and giving it an overall length of just 1/16 inch less than standard will probably do wonders at making the gun more reliable on firing, just my wildass guess.

Mcarbo maybe should include a new firing pin spring in their trigger package. Actually they could probably eliminate the new hammer spring if they put in a reasonable firing pin spring then maybe that stronger hammer spring would not be at all needed. I got fail to fire with the stock and replacement Mcarbo hammer springs, but more missfires with the standard spring, like maybe one in 25-50.

Interesting, I'm glad your gun is running well. Let us know if that continues or if it has any more trouble. I might end up sending mine in to the factory simply because it's going to cost me quite a bit just to shoot enough ammo to get a decent sample size.


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 Post subject: Re: Mossberg Maverick 88 Mcarbo light primer strikes?
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 8:58 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:56 pm
Posts: 803
Ajax12 wrote:
Interesting that your gun is fixed. Let us know if your gun keeps running well or if it has any more trouble. I might end up sending mine in to the factory simply because it's going to cost me quite a bit just to shoot enough ammo to get a decent sample size.


Yes cost of testing does come in, both in money and time. All things considered, older guns not even using a firing pin spring, time to remove spring and cut off a coil, cost of new spring if you screw up the old one, time and cost to pack and ship stuff to Mossberg, it would appear to me the idea of just cutting off a coil on the old spring is a very low risk and low cost way to go.

I might test mine some more, but maybe not. It was miss firing often enough that it would show up anytime I took it out and fired at least 50 rounds, so going through 100 with no problems and ALL primers being well dented convinces me the firing pin spring was the problem. That could be in error, for some unknown reason. That is the thing about the unknown, you just don't know it.

I do have another bolt coming in the mail. Someone had an unused bolt assembly complete with the plate that it sits on at a really low price on ebay so I bought it. Because I now have an extra bolt assembly coming I might put that one in and try it, also check strength on the firing pin spring on that one. In any event I took one coil off that original firing pin spring that I had set aside, so I have a spare spring that is definitely weaker than the original and it is the spring that gave seems to have given the problem while it was at original length and strength.

So the inspiration might hit me to check this all out further, but maybe not. I intend to go on vacation starting next Tuesday and that could keep me from checking it out some more at least for some time, but who knows?


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 Post subject: Re: Mossberg Maverick 88 Mcarbo light primer strikes?
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 8:47 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:56 pm
Posts: 803
Update, my new bolt assembly arrived. This gave me something to test against with my modified one with the cobbled up weaker firing pin spring.

I primed two empty cases.

I fired one in my modified weak spring old bolt assembly.

Then I switched out the bolts and test fired with the new bolt and strong regular firing pin spring.

The difference in the primer strike was huge. The one with the weaker spring had a dent twice as big as the one did with the standard spring.

This tells the whole tale for me. Now I have to take that new bolt out, and put the one back in that gives deep primer strikes.

For me this is case closed. I believe Uly hit the cause when he covered the fact of the overly strong firing pin spring.


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 Post subject: Re: Mossberg Maverick 88 Mcarbo light primer strikes?
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 1:57 am 
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Joined: Sun May 05, 2019 1:45 pm
Posts: 22
JoeCool wrote:
Update, my new bolt assembly arrived. This gave me something to test against with my modified one with the cobbled up weaker firing pin spring.

I primed two empty cases.

I fired one in my modified weak spring old bolt assembly.

Then I switched out the bolts and test fired with the new bolt and strong regular firing pin spring.

The difference in the primer strike was huge. The one with the weaker spring had a dent twice as big as the one did with the standard spring.

This tells the whole tale for me. Now I have to take that new bolt out, and put the one back in that gives deep primer strikes.

For me this is case closed. I believe Uly hit the cause when he covered the fact of the overly strong firing pin spring.

Sorry I haven't posted in a while, been working all weekend. That's interesting I'm not surprised that the stock spring is holding back the firing pin enough to cause a difference in strike depth. I have to believe that's why the 590a1 has the double hammer spring- to overcome that firing pin spring, unless someone has another theory.
The only thing I don't understand is why my gun would have good strikes except for once in a great while it's just a light tap. That makes me think it could be something other than the spring strength just because I'd think it'd be a constant issue if it were springs. I'm glad your gun is working so well I'm going to have to do some more test firing and see if I can replicate the issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Mossberg Maverick 88 Mcarbo light primer strikes?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:21 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 05, 2019 1:45 pm
Posts: 22
Well after only 9 months time I finally got something done on this issue lol. I had called mossberg months ago and they told me that certain brands of ammo have misfire issues and that the failure rate that my gun was experiencing wasn't enough to warrant sending it in. Dissatisfied with that I drove to brownells and had them pull a mossberg 500 firing pin spring from their warehouse and compared it to mine, it was exactly the same short little robust monster of a spring that my gun has so I had them put it back.

Fast forward to recently I was ordering some stuff from numrich and started looking at mossberg parts and noticed that the picture of the firing spring they have listed for the model 500A looked like a much finer wire light guage spring. So I went ahead and ordered it and it came in the mail yesterday. Low and behold this spring is about 10 times lighter that my original spring! Much lighter and a good bit longer. I installed it and will be taking the gun out soon to do some testing.

Time and round count will tell if this makes any difference, but it's crazy to me the difference between my original and this brand new spring from numrich. Here's the numrich part number - 53970A. The new numrich part is on the left and the original from my gun is on the right.
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 Post subject: Re: Mossberg Maverick 88 Mcarbo light primer strikes?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:36 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:56 pm
Posts: 803
Vast difference in those springs. I would not be surprised if the newer, longer one would work better with a little cut off it. If you load some primers in empty cases and try firing them, you will get a very good indication of the difference in the strength of the primer hit.


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 Post subject: Re: Mossberg Maverick 88 Mcarbo light primer strikes?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:43 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 05, 2019 1:45 pm
Posts: 22
JoeCool wrote:
Vast difference in those springs. I would not be surprised if the newer, longer one would work better with a little cut off it. If you load some primers in empty cases and try firing them, you will get a very good indication of the difference in the strength of the primer hit.

Yeah I might repeat that test with both springs, I don't think there should be any need to modify this spring though it's already super light compared to the original. It took all my strength in one hand to compress the original and this one I can compress with my pinky lol.
I posted the part number from numrich so you or anyone reading this thread can try this lighter spring if they're having issues and report back if it made a difference. That's what I'll do after I take it to the range. This spring seems to be a factory spring from mossberg so I feel totally comfortable using it as opposed to modifying the original spring or using a random spring from a hardware store.
Hopefully Ulysses sees this post I think he'll be very interested at the difference because this new spring if more like what he was describing earlier in this thread about what he thought the mossbergs come with.




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