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 Post subject: BEWARE for fake Winchester 37 28 ga.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 5:34 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 12:01 am
Posts: 3
Hi, I just came from a small gun show and found 5 model 37 28 ga. shotguns. A vender pointed out to me that 4 of them were fakes. This got my blood pumping because I bought one from one of the venders a while back. He showed me what to check for.

1. The lettering on the barrel will be very faint on the fakes where on the real guns the lettering is bodly stamped in.

2. One some of the fakes the proof mark is not stamed on the top of the barrel. (Its the same proof mark that is on the top of the receiver)

3. He said that the fake 37s have "2 7/8 CHAM" stamped on barrel whereas the real ones just have "2 7/8" (I'm not for sure how he knows this one, so i'm not positive)

4. On the back of the barrel there is a metal pice that holds the forearm. On the real guns the barrel has a half moon shaped key-way cut in the barrel and the piece it stuck in it. Both end parts of the key way is exposed. However on the fakes there is no visible key way left because the metal piece has been welded or based into place.

I went home and examed my 28ga. Sure enough it was a fake! I called the vender who sold it to me about 8 months ago and he refunded 100% of my money.
I need a REAL 28ga. to complete my set of "Red Letters", does anyone else know what I need to check for when identifying the fakes? Are the frames on the 28ga the same size as other gauges?
I am also curious to find out if ALL of the 28ga. were "Red Letters" or were just MOST of them. (see how the new BLUE BOOKs say the "most 28ga have the "red letter"" wereas a few years back it said that "all 28ga habe the "red letter"")
I really like those single shots and would like as much info about them as possible. Can someone please let me know how many 28ga were made? When was the "pigtail" used? When was the small hammer used? Any additional information will be very appreciated! Thanks, jmshunts




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 Post subject: Re: BEWARE for fake Winchester 37 28 ga.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 6:37 pm 
Diamond Grade
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Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 7:10 pm
Posts: 1241
Location: Ontario, Canada
The fact that the "fakes" seem to outnumber the real ones would leave me very suspicious of this vendors information. Model 37's were made from 1936-1963. By the 1960's the production ways of many firearms was suffering from cost cutting measures. I highly doubt that a Model 37 made in 1963 was indentical to a Model 37 made in 1936. I dealt in guns for a number of years and while their were some guns "re-worked" to increase there value most people who claimed a gun was not original or had fake markings were doing so out of a lack of knowledge of particular model. Also, most guns that were fakes were usually a high end gun.

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"Knowledge" is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. "Wisdom" is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad...


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 Post subject: Re: BEWARE for fake Winchester 37 28 ga.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 8:45 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 5:05 pm
Posts: 119
If the 37 was not a fake than why would the dealer be willing to refund the money after 8 months?


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 Post subject: Re: BEWARE for fake Winchester 37 28 ga.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 5:35 am 
Tournament Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 6:22 pm
Posts: 189
Location: Commonwealth of Virginia
I don't trust the vendor.

The only truth would come from the factory historian. Maybe a letter to that person would answer the questions raised.


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 Post subject: Re: BEWARE for fake Winchester 37 28 ga.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 5:53 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 9:35 am
Posts: 1506
This is an interesting post. Has there been a history of fake guns in the US recently?

It is difficult to separate fact from fiction on the parts issue. For example, parts coming from China on Rem 870 and some Ithaca models have inferior steel. Barrels with inferior steel.

Any experts out there?

Is there enough money in this for people to get involved?


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 Post subject: Re: BEWARE for fake Winchester 37 28 ga.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 5:54 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 9:35 am
Posts: 1506
Whoops. That post read wrong. I was asking if barrels and parts for Rem 870 and Ithaca had inferior steel....I don't know this to be the case.


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 Post subject: Re: BEWARE for fake Winchester 37 28 ga.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:18 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:09 pm
Posts: 1
Old topic but just managed to get my hands on this model 37 Red Letter 28 GA


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 Post subject: Re: BEWARE for fake Winchester 37 28 ga.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:58 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:56 pm
Posts: 1422
Good score there Shane, can you tell us the price? Not necessary of course but just curious to know how these old single shots have held up for resale. I am guessing they did okay.


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 Post subject: Re: BEWARE for fake Winchester 37 28 ga.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:20 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:04 am
Posts: 74
I wonder if this is a record for reviving the oldest dead thread -- 17 years? Having read the thread, why would anyone fake a hundred dollar gun?


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 Post subject: Re: BEWARE for fake Winchester 37 28 ga.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:59 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:16 pm
Posts: 3602
Location: New England
Pettifogger1 wrote:
I wonder if this is a record for reviving the oldest dead thread -- 17 years? Having read the thread, why would anyone fake a hundred dollar gun?



Because, years ago, they were going for a lot more than $100, as there was a buying frenzy for 28ga Winchester Model 37's - especially red letter guns.

.

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 Post subject: Re: BEWARE for fake Winchester 37 28 ga.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:29 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:06 am
Posts: 597
Good find Shane!
Thanks for posting.


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 Post subject: Re: BEWARE for fake Winchester 37 28 ga.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:37 am 
*Proud to be a*
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User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:42 pm
Posts: 29311
Location: Missouri
Similar scams exist for converting real 16 gauge Model 12s into fake 28 gauge Model 12s.

https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto ... 1&t=218614

The counterfeiters used a 16 gauge donor gun because they were the cheapest small frame Model 12.

Beanie Babies and baseball cards were faked, too.

https://fakebeaniebabies.weebly.com/

https://allvintagecards.com/detecting-c ... age-cards/

I bought a perfect 16 gauge Model 12 with a Polychoke once for next to nothing.

The seller thought it was refinished.

It was actually a 1946 gun with a 1943 receiver that was completed after the war.

It’s the most perfect Model 12 in original condition I own, that the original owner loved so much he added a Polychoke.

Nobody fakes or refinishes, a 16 gauge Model 12 with a Polychoke, but someday after I’m gone it might become a 28 gauge.:)

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I have never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as a reason for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson


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 Post subject: Re: BEWARE for fake Winchester 37 28 ga.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:06 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:07 pm
Posts: 1983
Location: Augusta, GA
Pettifogger1 wrote:
I wonder if this is a record for reviving the oldest dead thread -- 17 years? Having read the thread, why would anyone fake a hundred dollar gun?


Because today a Red Letter Model 37 single shot in 28 gauge which is authentic and original brings $2500-4000. They are not a "hundred dollar gun". Even in 2004, a Red Letter Model 37 single shot in 28 gauge which is authentic and original would bring dam near $1000.


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 Post subject: Re: BEWARE for fake Winchester 37 28 ga.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:05 am 
Gunsmith
Gunsmith

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:46 pm
Posts: 883
Location: Commerce Michigan
Why would anyone bother to counterfeit Winchester Model 37's? It's not a very sought after gun, whatsoever.


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 Post subject: Re: BEWARE for fake Winchester 37 28 ga.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:14 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:56 pm
Posts: 1422
Tron wrote:
Why would anyone bother to counterfeit Winchester Model 37's? It's not a very sought after gun, whatsoever.

Right, it makes no sense whatever. Over the span they made them, they might have did it different time to time. On top of that, even if it is counterfeit, if it was well made it should be as good as a non counterfeit. There is no big engineering problem to overcome to take a 16 or 20 gauge and re-barrel it to 28. Any competent mechanically skilled person could do decent job of it.


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 Post subject: Re: BEWARE for fake Winchester 37 28 ga.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:23 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 9415
Location: Louisiana
28 gauge model 37s are highly prized by Winchester collectors who want them in original factory condition, not refinished or altered and certainly not faked.


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 Post subject: Re: BEWARE for fake Winchester 37 28 ga.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:26 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:56 pm
Posts: 1422
I understand collectors like a lot of things, and I also understand
many things that are collected often lose their appeal over time.
I can name several things that went from collectible to just about
useless. If I were to make a bet on 28ga model 37s as to their
value in 50 years, I would say, "not much". Of course I could
be wrong, but the collectors also can be wrong. That is the
thing about the future, we just don't know. I would not even
want one if offered to me free. Actually I would not one of them
even if it were chambered to 20 ga, something I can find a use
for.


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 Post subject: Re: BEWARE for fake Winchester 37 28 ga.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:11 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:42 pm
Posts: 29311
Location: Missouri
Missouri Meerschaum corn cob pipes are the only American made, in Washington, Missouri, corn cob pipes. They’ve been making an excellently hand crafted and patented (long expired) product from cobs specially grown corn and seasoned for two years, for over 150 years. Even if you don’t smoke a pipe, you should tour their original 1880 factory where the product is still being made on many of the original machines from the last part of the 19th century.

A plain MM cob pipe is about $7.50 and the really deluxe ones are $15.

You’d think there’s no demand, to counterfeit a Missouri Meerschaum. Wrong!

—-
A WORD OF CAUTION ABOUT BUYING NON-MISSOURI MEERSCHAUM CORN COB PIPES ON EBAY

Please be aware that the Missouri Meerschaum Pipe Company is the ONLY U.S. Manufacturer of corn cob pipes. While you may find old/vintage corn cob pipes on eBay from other defunct US brands, all other pipes which are being marketed as new corn cob pipes are manufactured in communist China from poor quality corn cobs. One Chinese brand even has the nerve to call itself “Original Corn Cob Pipes"!



I made my first corn cob pipe myself, when I was a kid. You need corn cobs and reed with a hole in it (I used a busted bamboo fusing pole) but only Missouri Meerschaum makes a wonderful corn cob pipe.

There’s not a good product under the sun, that’s not been faked.

_________________
I have never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as a reason for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson


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 Post subject: Re: BEWARE for fake Winchester 37 28 ga.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:23 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:56 pm
Posts: 1422
I wonder how much Gen MaCarthur effected corn cob pipe sales, and did he use a genuine Missouri Meerschaum?
link:
https://www.google.com/search?q=photo+G ... p3qU_18OLM


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 Post subject: Re: BEWARE for fake Winchester 37 28 ga.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 8:20 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 9415
Location: Louisiana
I'd imagine that in 50 years, a 28ga Winchester model 37 in pristine original condition will be worth a lot more than it is today. I won't be around to verify that though...




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