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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:18 am 
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I see Randy Wakeman hasn’t taken the bait yet so could very well be a troll.




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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:48 am 
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Patently Obvious wrote:
I see Randy Wakeman hasn’t taken the bait yet so could very well be a troll.


Certainly would lead one in that direction when a post gets good and potentially useful responses such as this one has, and then nothing from the OP. Either a troll or just rude ( IMO).

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:06 am 
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Hey everyone,

I have been on an extended search to find a good duck/turkey gun for the past year. The delay in purchase is mainly due to funds and lack of good side by side comparison. I presently hunt with a Maxus Hunter. I enjoy shooting Maxus but am afraid of scratching it. So, looking for something I would not be afraid of beating up. Here are my thoughts while looking. Chime in whenever.

SBE 3
Best fitting gun I have tried. Really like all things about fit and finish. The POI issue is a huge issue when you factor price, inconvenience and no real fix I can see. Mixed reports on Benelli's attempt to fix, large front bead(stupid fix) and little chatter reporting correction of the problem tells me little has been done to remedy the issue. To buy one with this problem would be a bummer, esp with cost.

Fabarm Waterfowler
Very cool gun. Best made of the bunch by far(if you don't believe me, take one apart at your local gun store). Fits well but not quite as good as the SBE for me. The long rib is really nice. Very few bad reports and fair priced. Limited availability scares me a little. I am leaning towards this gun

M2 Cerokote
Nice gun. Good price point. No reports of POI issues. Fits well. Definitely in the running

V3
Good reports on the gun. Excellent price point. The fore end is a little big in the hand and does not fit as well for me as other guns. I am still considering this one.

Maxus Wicked Wings
Nice gun. Good solid reputation. The Maxus has been a good reliable gun for me. Expensive! I still concern about how solid the fore end will be with the attachment system in the future.

Beretta A400
Good reputation with people who own and sell the gun. Heavy.

SV
I really like this gun a lot. It comes up very well for me and fits well. Good price point. Trouble accepting the safety position and it is not very pretty

I believe I will end up with either the M2 or Fabarm when I finally decide. If anyone can give some insight on the SBE 3 problem and fix. Chime in and see if we can help this duck hunter

Woody


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:00 am 
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Waterfowl shotgun can be used for Turkey hunting. But my personal experience tells me that a double for turkeys is better option.
Last spring I took ambush in a windbreak woods. I never use tents, decoys. Just my shotgun, Primos mouth call and me in camo and mask .I've called in a nice tom and he came in from the other side which made a difficult shot and only about 7..8yds away! I took a shot using my a400, Trulock TKY and Win LongBeard #5. But apparently at such a distance the shot doesn't open enough and given the Turkey choke it goes like slug. So no wonder I missed the tom's head. In addition to this the 3.5" LongBeard shot caused a400's action to jam on the 2nd shot. It took me maybe 5sec to clear the jam but the tom has managed to run then hid in the bushes showing me a finger on his way. Lesson learned. I managed to fill my tag the other day. But this spring I will take Baikal mp27-EM OU for turkey hunting. My lower barrel choke will be Truchoke TKY + LongBeard 3" #5 shot, the top barrel will have a Truchoke Mod and a regular "Heavy Game" #5 or 6 shot. If tom will materialize himself at less than 15yds - I will switch and shoot my top barrel.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:38 pm 
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i3rider wrote:
Waterfowl shotgun can be used for Turkey hunting. But my personal experience tells me that a double for turkeys is better option.
Last spring I took ambush in a windbreak woods. I never use tents, decoys. Just my shotgun, Primos mouth call and me in camo and mask .I've called in a nice tom and he came in from the other side which made a difficult shot and only about 7..8yds away! I took a shot using my a400, Trulock TKY and Win LongBeard #5. But apparently at such a distance the shot doesn't open enough and given the Turkey choke it goes like slug. So no wonder I missed the tom's head. In addition to this the 3.5" LongBeard shot caused a400's action to jam on the 2nd shot. It took me maybe 5sec to clear the jam but the tom has managed to run then hid in the bushes showing me a finger on his way. Lesson learned. I managed to fill my tag the other day. But this spring I will take Baikal mp27-EM OU for turkey hunting. My lower barrel choke will be Truchoke TKY + LongBeard 3" #5 shot, the top barrel will have a Truchoke Mod and a regular "Heavy Game" #5 or 6 shot. If tom will materialize himself at less than 15yds - I will switch and shoot my top barrel.


You ever tried doing that? If you aren't blinded up or your shotgun has double triggers, a turkey that close will likely see and hear you switching barrels and be gone before you can put the bead on him. At 15 yards, you'd better be staring straight down the barrel at the turkey with nothing left to do but pull the trigger.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:34 pm 
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lossking wrote:
You ever tried doing that? If you aren't blinded up or your shotgun has double triggers, a turkey that close will likely see and hear you switching barrels and be gone before you can put the bead on him. At 15 yards, you'd better be staring straight down the barrel at the turkey with nothing left to do but pull the trigger.

Yes I did try and did even more than that. Imagine, every spring I buy turkey tags for two Canadian provinces and successfully fill them all, which makes 4 (four) turkeys per every season. So I took over dozen of toms already.
It takes only very subtle push the trigger forward and almost inaudible "click" to switch from low to top barrel in the Baikal mp27-em. When you're hiding in the bush there is always very light movement of branches, old grass, etc or even young leaves if it is past the middle of May time in our area which helps you. It is to say if you're very slow and quiet enough you're OK.
Moreover, one day it happened that I called in two mature toms at once. They came up together but from very uncomfortable direction from about 100 yds away. I was having angle of an unobstructed view for shooting maybe only about 90...100 deg out of my natural ambush. Unfortunately the turkeys went in from the right side which was obstructed. They stopped then for 5 minutes or even more they were playing my nerves: stomping, pulling their necks, rolling heads back and forth in effort to identify that horny hen who called them in :)) The distance between them and me was the shortest possible path about 10..11 yds only, but through the bush branches.. So probably this is why they were refusing to go a little bit around to advance into the open. It is amazing how these birds pinpoint you. So I had no choice but to stand up tall in quick motion, mount my a400 quickly up then froze up while aiming at the one standing in front of the other one. The other one which was some 2 ft behind and mostly obstructed by branches has taken off and hid in the bush not too far somewhere behind me. But the 1st one has made 2-3 steps not too fast then ..stopped while starring at me rather astonished - here I pulled my trigger ))
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-NINi3BSJ5xE/ ... y-22LB.jpg

this one was taken somewhere in the middle of forest using Baikal mp-153( sold it last summer)
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-aVXjLaWwbpQ/ ... %257E2.jpg

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-DCuUMLlRa_A/ ... 064552.jpg

p.s. I've bought a Garmin Virb action cam recently. So this season I will try to create some videos.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:51 pm 
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woodtam wrote:
looking for something I would not be afraid of beating up.


Quote:
SV
I really like this gun a lot. It comes up very well for me and fits well. Good price point. Trouble accepting the safety position and it is not very pretty


Sounds like it fits the bill perfectly! :)

In all honesty, I bought my SV in 2011, right after they came out. I've been rough on it and it just keeps on going, and it isn't a beautiful gun so I can use it like the functional tool it was designed to be without fear. I'm going to send it off soon to have the barrel Cerakoted in Burnt Bronze just like the new SBE3 Waterfowl edition, which will take care of the scrapes and scratches I've put on it in duck blinds/pits/boats.

The safety shouldn't be an issue after the first time you shoot it. I have guns with safety on tang, front and back of trigger guard, and you just naturally adapt to whatever you have in your hand at the time - just like driving cars with different controls.

Downside to SV, if you ever want to do conservation goose hunting where you can use an extended mag tube, there are some options but they're way more expensive than for the "normal" waterfowl guns like A400, SBE. That may or may not matter to you.

All that being said, I don't see a bad option in your list. Beretta A300 Outlander may also be an option, cheaper price point than the A400, since you do seem wiling to consider 3" guns like the M2, V3. Also, while I have no experience with them, Randy W. seems to be speaking highly of the new Retay guns but I'm not sure if you might have a local dealer with stock. They do look interesting.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:35 pm 
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i3rider wrote:
lossking wrote:
You ever tried doing that? If you aren't blinded up or your shotgun has double triggers, a turkey that close will likely see and hear you switching barrels and be gone before you can put the bead on him. At 15 yards, you'd better be staring straight down the barrel at the turkey with nothing left to do but pull the trigger.

Yes I did try and did even more than that. Imagine, every spring I buy turkey tags for two Canadian provinces and successfully fill them all, which makes 4 (four) turkeys per every season. So I took over dozen of toms already.
It takes only very subtle push the trigger forward and almost inaudible "click" to switch from low to top barrel in the Baikal mp27-em. When you're hiding in the bush there is always very light movement of branches, old grass, etc or even young leaves if it is past the middle of May time in our area which helps you. It is to say if you're very slow and quiet enough you're OK.
Moreover, one day it happened that I called in two mature toms at once. They came up together but from very uncomfortable direction from about 100 yds away. I was having angle of an unobstructed view for shooting maybe only about 90...100 deg out of my natural ambush. Unfortunately the turkeys went in from the right side which was obstructed. They stopped then for 5 minutes or even more they were playing my nerves: stomping, pulling their necks, rolling heads back and forth in effort to identify that horny hen who called them in :)) The distance between them and me was the shortest possible path about 10..11 yds only, but through the bush branches.. So probably this is why they were refusing to go a little bit around to advance into the open. It is amazing how these birds pinpoint you. So I had no choice but to stand up tall in quick motion, mount my a400 quickly up then froze up while aiming at the one standing in front of the other one. The other one which was some 2 ft behind and mostly obstructed by branches has taken off and hid in the bush not too far somewhere behind me. But the 1st one has made 2-3 steps not too fast then ..stopped while starring at me rather astonished - here I pulled my trigger ))
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-NINi3BSJ5xE/ ... y-22LB.jpg

this one was taken somewhere in the middle of forest using Baikal mp-153( sold it last summer)
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-aVXjLaWwbpQ/ ... %257E2.jpg

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-DCuUMLlRa_A/ ... 064552.jpg

p.s. I've bought a Garmin Virb action cam recently. So this season I will try to create some videos.


Nice pictures. Perhaps your Canadian turkeys haven't been hunted hard. At 10 yds., our turkeys would be gone by the time you stood up.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:32 pm 
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lossking wrote:
Nice pictures. Perhaps your Canadian turkeys haven't been hunted hard. At 10 yds., our turkeys would be gone by the time you stood up.

Thanks.
I wouldn't say they aren't hunted hard. In that area I saw enough spent shells and people traces.
I think it is something rather about the way most people approach this kind of hunting, scouting and choosing spot and ambush. Many people just buy a tent, decoy and sometime a specialized turkey shotgun (which I personally do not see a single point to have it) and think they are all set to get a turkey. Installing their tent in some spot they like then sitting and calling from inside for hours. In my opinion such an approach doesn't help to become better at turkey hunting. I usually take an ambush, call then wait. Repeat it 3..4 times then if there is nothing happens for 60..80 minutes, no action, no goobbles, etc then I take off and look for another spot. Some time I just roam, do location calling and listen for a gobble. No tents, no decoys. My style is closer to the way this guy hunting: https://www.youtube.com/user/mddale31/videos
Also my observation is that our turkeys even on a public land never take off promptly especially if you care and do not expose yourself like Statue of Liberty. Very often when they get suspicious they watch and delay like for 1..3sec before run or fly away - barely enough time to take a shot if you're in 45..50yds range.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:50 pm 
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That's pretty much the way I like to turkey hunt too. I've found that, up close, they usually won't tolerate any movement though. Good luck this spring.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:53 pm 
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John Curtiss wrote:
OK, I'm looking for a duck gun, and upon doing so, I've ran into the same controversy It's apparent the Benelli click issue still exists, and now on the newer A5's also since it appears it has the exact same bolt. So can somebody please tell me why on Gods green earth anyone with a brain would voluntarily buy either of these guns when it's no secret there's a problem with the bolt engaging AND problems shooting 2-3/4" light loads when on the other hand, there's guns that perform flawlessly, like the Fabarm XLR5, the Beretta A400 extreme, the Retay Masai Mara, Remington Versa Max or many others that work properly ??????? I'm beginning to get the feeling the owners of a Benelli SBE kinda fall into the same category as Jaguar SUV owners; you paid a fortune for it, so no matter how bad it is and no matter how many issues there are with it, ya have to stick with the premise that it's awesome and everyone should have one, am I'm getting warm ?
Due to extreme reliability, I'm tempted to find me a nice Belgium light magnum 12 or 20 and have it coated, have screw-in chokes installed ( or swap for an invector barrel) and enjoy. .


First off the "Benelli Click" is not some made up tale. There is a reason why it happens and it's most prevalent on Inertia operated models with rotary bolt faces. It can happen to other models/brands with different operations that allow the hammer to strike the bottom back of the bolt when it's not fully locked. Just not as easily as the models with a flat spot in the bolt body groove. Like some others have stated, it's not nearly the issue some make it out to be though. Being aware of the issue and understanding how it happens will cure it 99.9% of the time.

If you are looking for a new waterfowling model, light load cycling is usually not an issue. Even then, Inertia operated 3 1/2" models cycle lighter field loads which are fine for smashing clay. The better Gas operated 3 1/2" models cycle lighter target loads.

I do own a Benelli SBE turkey model. For me it's the best model for that use for several reasons that are important to me. I don't really care if others are concerned with how much or little I paid for it or any other thing I buy/use for that matter. It's far from a perfect gun as is any other gun ever manufactured. I also don't care if someone buys a Benelli or any other brand of auto loading shotgun that I own or don't. There is no one best brand/model that never fails or has broken parts. There are plenty of very good models to choose from and each person should get the model/brand that fits their requirements the best. Benelli, Beretta, and Browning all have models that are very close in price as well.

I have a Browning Mag 12 (Japan). I don't use it much any more beside some targets and a rare waterfowl hunt where I know I can baby it to preserve it's condition. It is a poor cycler of light loads and needs adjustment for different loads at times. Quality and durability are top notch though.

For me, I like 3 1/2" camo models with some type of magazine cutoff for waterfowling. I recommend for new models the Benelli SBE III, Super Vinci, Beretta A400 Xtreme, A350 Xtrema, Browning A-5, Maxus, Silver, Franchi Affinity, Remington Versa Max, Stoeger M3500, Winchester SX3/SX4. Since you mentioned used there are some really good used models as well. Benelli SBE, SBE II, Beretta A391 Xtrema 1 and 2, Browning Gold, Franchi 912, Winchester SX2.
Nothing wrong with a 3" model for waterfowling as there are many very good models for this use as well.

So, in the end get the one that you like the best and can afford. Any model you get you should know it's strengths and weaknesses.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:13 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 6:52 pm
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I am very happy with my A300 for waterfowl. I sold my A400.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:46 am
Posts: 8359
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Worc wrote:
John Curtiss wrote:
OK, I'm looking for a duck gun, and upon doing so, I've ran into the same controversy It's apparent the Benelli click issue still exists, and now on the newer A5's also since it appears it has the exact same bolt. So can somebody please tell me why on Gods green earth anyone with a brain would voluntarily buy either of these guns when it's no secret there's a problem with the bolt engaging AND problems shooting 2-3/4" light loads when on the other hand, there's guns that perform flawlessly, like the Fabarm XLR5, the Beretta A400 extreme, the Retay Masai Mara, Remington Versa Max or many others that work properly ??????? I'm beginning to get the feeling the owners of a Benelli SBE kinda fall into the same category as Jaguar SUV owners; you paid a fortune for it, so no matter how bad it is and no matter how many issues there are with it, ya have to stick with the premise that it's awesome and everyone should have one, am I'm getting warm ?
Due to extreme reliability, I'm tempted to find me a nice Belgium light magnum 12 or 20 and have it coated, have screw-in chokes installed ( or swap for an invector barrel) and enjoy. .


First off the "Benelli Click" is not some made up tale. There is a reason why it happens and it's most prevalent on Inertia operated models with rotary bolt faces. It can happen to other models/brands with different operations that allow the hammer to strike the bottom back of the bolt when it's not fully locked. Just not as easily as the models with a flat spot in the bolt body groove. Like some others have stated, it's not nearly the issue some make it out to be though. Being aware of the issue and understanding how it happens will cure it 99.9% of the time.

If you are looking for a new waterfowling model, light load cycling is usually not an issue. Even then, Inertia operated 3 1/2" models cycle lighter field loads which are fine for smashing clay. The better Gas operated 3 1/2" models cycle lighter target loads.

I do own a Benelli SBE turkey model. For me it's the best model for that use for several reasons that are important to me. I don't really care if others are concerned with how much or little I paid for it or any other thing I buy/use for that matter. It's far from a perfect gun as is any other gun ever manufactured. I also don't care if someone buys a Benelli or any other brand of auto loading shotgun that I own or don't. There is no one best brand/model that never fails or has broken parts. There are plenty of very good models to choose from and each person should get the model/brand that fits their requirements the best. Benelli, Beretta, and Browning all have models that are very close in price as well.

I have a Browning Mag 12 (Japan). I don't use it much any more beside some targets and a rare waterfowl hunt where I know I can baby it to preserve it's condition. It is a poor cycler of light loads and needs adjustment for different loads at times. Quality and durability are top notch though.

For me, I like 3 1/2" camo models with some type of magazine cutoff for waterfowling. I recommend for new models the Benelli SBE III, Super Vinci, Beretta A400 Xtreme, A350 Xtrema, Browning A-5, Maxus, Silver, Franchi Affinity, Remington Versa Max, Stoeger M3500, Winchester SX3/SX4. Since you mentioned used there are some really good used models as well. Benelli SBE, SBE II, Beretta A391 Xtrema 1 and 2, Browning Gold, Franchi 912, Winchester SX2.
Nothing wrong with a 3" model for waterfowling as there are many very good models for this use as well.

So, in the end get the one that you like the best and can afford. Any model you get you should know it's strengths and weaknesses.


Do they still make the A-350? I think it has been discontinued.


Last edited by Dr Duk on Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:27 pm 
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Perhaps I missed it but I don't believe anybody mentioned Winchester.
I own Browning/Miroku Auto-5 Mag, Browning new A-5, Browning BPS 10 and 12, Remington 11-87, Remington 1100, an old Marlin 120, and Winchester SX-3. I have previously owned Browning Gold, Beretta, and Benelli. Don't own Benelli or Beretta now because the Italian guns just don't fit me right. Got rid of the Gold because it hated cold weather.
IF I decide to hunt geese where the shots are going to be really long - it's BPS 10 time. But the gun that gets 75-90% of the work the rest of the time is the SX-3.
Runs everything I feed it, patterns great with Trulock chokes, doesn't mind cold weather...been a true workhorse.

ps: When it's dry and I'm not going to get the old girl messed up - I still have to enjoy a few days a year of whacking 'em with the Auto-5. She's still the "gold standard" of duck guns to old guys like me. Just keep a supply of spare wood around....LOL.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:15 pm 
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Woodduck1 wrote:
Perhaps I missed it but I don't believe anybody mentioned Winchester.
I own Browning/Miroku Auto-5 Mag, Browning new A-5, Browning BPS 10 and 12, Remington 11-87, Remington 1100, an old Marlin 120, and Winchester SX-3. I have previously owned Browning Gold, Beretta, and Benelli. Don't own Benelli or Beretta now because the Italian guns just don't fit me right. Got rid of the Gold because it hated cold weather.
IF I decide to hunt geese where the shots are going to be really long - it's BPS 10 time. But the gun that gets 75-90% of the work the rest of the time is the SX-3.
Runs everything I feed it, patterns great with Trulock chokes, doesn't mind cold weather...been a true workhorse.

Even with adjustable shims, Beretta doesn’t fit?

ps: When it's dry and I'm not going to get the old girl messed up - I still have to enjoy a few days a year of whacking 'em with the Auto-5. She's still the "gold standard" of duck guns to old guys like me. Just keep a supply of spare wood around....LOL.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:29 pm 
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I own an SX2 and an SX3, and have shot my buddy's AL391 and A400. I prefer the Winchesters as they fit and feel better to me. Function wise, all seem to be very reliable.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:21 pm 
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If you need Wakeman or anyone else to tell you what gun you should buy, you have a serious problem ... did you ask, or are you going to ask who you should marry?

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Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.― Mark Twain


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:33 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:04 am
Posts: 2712
BGK wrote:
If you need Wakeman or anyone else to tell you what gun you should buy, you have a serious problem ... did you ask, or are you going to ask who you should marry?



I don`t know, I`ve found it useful at times to get input from others before I made certain decisions in my life. While who I should marry didn`t happen to be one of those decisions, in hindsight I probably would have been better off if I had, at least on one occasion!

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Fabarm L4S Initial Hunter
Remington 870 Super Magnum Turkey
Remington V3 Walnut
Remington 870 Express (Realtree Xtra camo)


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:52 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:11 am
Posts: 4083
Location: Western Tampa, FL
Tidefanatic wrote:
BGK wrote:
If you need Wakeman or anyone else to tell you what gun you should buy, you have a serious problem ... did you ask, or are you going to ask who you should marry?



I don`t know, I`ve found it useful at times to get input from others before I made certain decisions in my life. While who I should marry didn`t happen to be one of those decisions, in hindsight I probably would have been better off if I had, at least on one occasion!



Here, Here! Words of wisdom there! {hs# :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:57 pm 
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Location: Louisiana
Tidefanatic wrote:
BGK wrote:
If you need Wakeman or anyone else to tell you what gun you should buy, you have a serious problem ... did you ask, or are you going to ask who you should marry?



I don`t know, I`ve found it useful at times to get input from others before I made certain decisions in my life. While who I should marry didn`t happen to be one of those decisions, in hindsight I probably would have been better off if I had, at least on one occasion!


:lol: :lol: :lol:




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