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Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman
https://www.shotgunworld.com:443/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=506912
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Author:  John Curtiss [ Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman

OK, I'm looking for a duck gun, and upon doing so, I've ran into the same controversy
I'm sure thousands of others have also experienced. You talk to your buds, you go to the gun store, you read and read and read. It's the Ford - Chevy thing all over again, except now it's with shotguns. I've watched Randy Wakeman ( really like this guy ) for hours doing shotgun reviews / test firing clays, etc. It's apparent the Benelli click issue still exists, and now on the newer A5's also since it appears it has the exact same bolt. So can somebody please tell me why on Gods green earth anyone with a brain would voluntarily buy either of these guns when it's no secret there's a problem with the bolt engaging AND problems shooting 2-3/4" light loads when on the other hand, there's guns that perform flawlessly,
like the Fabarm XLR5, the Beretta A400 extreme, the Retay Masai Mara, Remington Versa
Max or many others that work properly ??????? I'm beginning to get the feeling the owners of a Benelli SBE kinda fall into the same category as Jaguar SUV owners; you paid a fortune for it, so no matter how bad it is and no matter how many issues there are with it, ya have to stick with the premise that it's awesome and everyone should have one, am I'm getting warm ?
Due to extreme reliability, I'm tempted to find me a nice Belgium light magnum 12 or 20 and have it coated, have screw-in chokes installed ( or swap for an invector barrel) and enjoy. It's either that or buy one of the above mentioned "flawlessly functioning" guns
and call it a day. Yep, I'm completely aware I just threw a big rock right into a huge hornets nest ( in August when they're already halfway pissed off).

Author:  oyeme [ Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman

How about this one? It would be my first choice because of my experience with the V3.

http://randywakeman.com/Review2019Remin ... owlPro.htm

Author:  Rooster booster [ Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman

Fishing season already?

Get the A-5 if you want, but no reason at all to ship it off for all sorts of crap stuck on it. Plenty of choices in other guns if you can’t stand a Benelli, and plenty of choices in ammunition if you want to shoot a classic that’s just as fine for waterfowling as ever.

Contrary to popular opinion.....you don’t need camp skivvies, camp guns, or camp anything to hunt, well, anything.

Author:  fiver [ Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman

no but you do need a good truck gun.

Author:  Tidefanatic [ Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman

The V3 Waterfowl Pro would definitely be one I would look at based on my experience with the V3 Field Sport. Great platform.

Author:  Dr Duk [ Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman

Just finished the season yesterday. Shot 2 BIG Canada’s with 12 minutes before sunset.
Shot close to 175 birds this year, all with Beretta SAs.
The newer A-400 Xtreme and Xtreme Plus are great waterfowl guns chambered for 3.5” shells but will cycle 7/8 oz loads. The KickOff really reduces felt recoil.
Used my Xtrema I yesterday for the final hunt of this season.
Beretta, Beretta, Beretta are my top 3 choices.

Author:  chemclay [ Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman

oyeme wrote:
How about this one? It would be my first choice because of my experience with the V3.

http://randywakeman.com/Review2019Remin ... owlPro.htm


That's really a nice gun Randy; how would it hold up to volume clay shooting?

Author:  Patently Obvious [ Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman

OP the clay shooters have a favorite saying. It’s the Indian and not the arrow.

If you are having a hard time shooting ducks, a new gun ain’t gonna help. Learn how to scout, hide, not move or flail around with your gun till birds are in range and not scanning the horizon with your face shining like a light house on Lake Superior.

If you like an older A5 get one, leave it alone, and shoot bismuth or other soft no tox shot. How did those old time shooters kill so many birds with A5’s that they had to put magazine limits in the rules while using those shinny barrel guns with shiny stocks, and without camo clothing? It’s the Indian and not the arrow.

In my best Jeff Foxworthy impression.

If you go to McDonald’s .... put hot coffee between your legs and burn your junk .... you might not be a Benelli owner. If you take your push lawn mower .... and use it as a hedge trimmer cutting off your fingers .... you might not be a Benelli owner. How many thousands of Benellis have been sold, and how many gun companies have copied the design, and how many ducks have been shot, and yet you can’t figure out how to run the gun? It’s the Indian and not the arrow.

Now if you want to understand improvements to the base Benelli action here is a thread explaining it.

https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto ... t=+Patents

If you’d frame up a more cogent question you would get better responses. Start snarky you get snarky.

.

Author:  Tidefanatic [ Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman

fiver wrote:
no but you do need a good truck gun.



Yes indeed! The raison d` etre of the Remington 870 Express!

Author:  birdhunter39 [ Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman

John Curtiss wrote:
It's apparent the Benelli click issue still exists, and now on the newer A5's also since it appears it has the exact same bolt. So can somebody please tell me why on Gods green earth anyone with a brain would voluntarily buy either of these guns when it's no secret there's a problem with the bolt engaging AND problems shooting 2-3/4" light loads when on the other hand, there's guns that perform flawlessly,
like the Fabarm XLR5, the Beretta A400 extreme, the Retay Masai Mara, Remington Versa
Max or many others that work properly ???????



All of those brands have been show to be subject to problems. ALL of them.

In the real world of duck hunting it has been my experience that Benelli and Beretta are fantastic options that hold up well and retain a good bit of their value.

If you want to hear what an actual duck hunter has to say on it:

Beretta 3" duck guns: dead reliable until temps get very, very cold. then subject to cycling issues depending on the oil you use for lubrication.

Benelli 3" duck guns: dead reliable at any temperature. don't play with the bolt and you won't experience the click. strongly prefer the ramped rib for live bird shooting.

Author:  i3rider [ Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman

I own an A400 Xtreme Unico for almost 4 yrs.
Also my style of hunting is rather hardcore. Often I do spotting and stalking, pass shooting, walk wetlands, bush and more. So for me it must be "do it all" weapon with maximum performance. Probably the best thing about this gun is that it never rusts. Rain, snow or whatever - the "Steelium" resists it all. It happened at lest two times for me to drop my A400 into water and slush fully submerged. It is also to say that another great thing about this shotgun: it is the easiest to disassemble and clean among the gas operated shotguns. When I take it out of water or slush, it takes me about 3..5 minutes to disassemble and clean it to make sure it won't fail to cycle. The locking cap takes only 1/4 turn to take it off... Then I just using my mouth to blow at every part to make sure the water and dirt are gone. I assemble it back, load and shoot. And it does work after this.
The double Kick-OFF system - it really helps to reduce the felt recoil. But most important thing is that it helps to minimize the barrel jump which is good when you shoot twice or more.
The cocking handle - it is designed the way so you will never lose it. I love it, that engineer is genuis. It can be a challenge to take it out of brand new gun first 5..10 times. Do not try to force it - please watch a video on YouTube. But once you learn the trick - you're golden.
The rotating bolt head - is great feature. Because, just like Benelli, it ensures the chamber stays locked all the way before the shot leaves barrel.

Now, not very good things about this shotgun.
1. The Optima HP choke system sucks because it is swelling prone. I guess the people who designed it have no idea what is "resistance of materials". I did learn this subject among the others. But if you decide to do not shoot 3.5" steel shots - you won't be affected. Really, the 3.5" are waste of money and punishment for your shotgun mechanics.
Watch this video https://youtu.be/-zb_0-Zf58k - the guy shoots ducks using the hand loaded 7/8oz 2-3/4" . He also uses 2-3/4" shots to shoot geese in his other videos.
2. My a400 sometime fails to cycle 3.5" shots. Many a400 owners do not see such a problem, the others do. I'm probably out of luck here. BUT I do not buy the 3.5" shots anymore :)

So, at the end, can I recommend Beretta a400 Xtreme Unico? My answer is "YES"

Beretta a300 is apparently good option too.

Among the other options I would look at Benelli Vinci or M2. I've heard the new models do not have the "Benelli click" problem. Maybe Mr Randy could chime in here. Among Benelli options I only have a 20ga Montefeltro which I love. I think the 12ga one must be as good. My friend has a Super Sport which he uses for hunting too. But the thing I do not like about that gun is the ported barrel - it is probably good for clay shooting. The barrel porting means the loss of power which is not an issue for clays, but it is not good for hunting application. Another good thing about Benelli that they ensure chamber stays locked up until shot leaves the barrel. So this way 100% of gas energy is being applied to the shot charge - just like pump or break barrel shotgun. Do your own research on Benelli, get one not having the "click" problem and be happy. It will last you life time. Also you won't need to clean it as often as the gas operated ones.

And I totally dismiss all the back bored shotguns from my list. I've already explained my points in this regard here: https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto ... 4#p4254144

Author:  miklm [ Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman

John Curtiss wrote:
It's apparent the Benelli click issue still exists, and now on the newer A5's also since it appears it has the exact same bolt. So can somebody please tell me why on Gods green earth anyone with a brain would voluntarily buy either of these guns when it's no secret there's a problem with the bolt engaging AND problems shooting 2-3/4" light loads when on the other hand, there's guns that perform flawlessly,


What a tired old trope.

I've had the "Benelli click" once in almost 10 years of owning/hunting with them (I have a Super Vinci & SBE2), and that time was user error because I had knocked the bolt out of battery.

Can it happen? Yes.
Is it "common"? No.
Is it 1000x overblown on internet forums like this due to a hardcore vocal minority group of Benelli-haters who love to talk ad nauseum about it? Yes

And since my anecdotes are worth just a much as anyone else's, I've seen plenty of other guns fail in a duck blind for all kinds of reasons - although lack of maintenance/neglect is a pretty common theme.

Likewise, you can certainly load up some 7/8oz powderpuff load that a SBE/S.Vinci won't cycle, but you've got to go out of your way to look for one. The majority of the ammo you buy will run all day long. I've witnessed a lot more 1100s that wouldn't cycle due to being dirty or damaged o-rings than I have Benellis that wouldn't run standard 2-3/4 ammo. Am I saying 1100s are junk? Absolutely not; just saying that anything can be made to fail if you try hard enough or neglect it long enough.

Are all those other models you mentioned fine choices? Beretta, Fabarm, Remington V3/Versamax, etc.? Sure they are, I'd honestly take any of them to the field and be quite happy. But I also know I've spent enough time with inertia Benellis to know that the majority of the folks who have an axe to grind with them are not coming from an experienced, impartial, or honest point of view.

Author:  oyeme [ Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman

chemclay wrote:
oyeme wrote:
How about this one? It would be my first choice because of my experience with the V3.

http://randywakeman.com/Review2019Remin ... owlPro.htm


That's really a nice gun Randy; how would it hold up to volume clay shooting?


I don't know how much is "volume clay shooting" but I have been using my V3 since August shooting no less than about 4-6 boxes per week. It is the same gun internally that the Waterfowl Pro is so it is a good comparison. That is not a ton of shooting, but there is nothing that makes me believe it will hold up any less than gas guns from any other maker.

If you still have misgivings, it does have one very desirable longevity feature that none of the B guns possess, i.e. a lifetime warranty! :D

Author:  Rooster booster [ Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman

miklm wrote:
John Curtiss wrote:
It's apparent the Benelli click issue still exists, and now on the newer A5's also since it appears it has the exact same bolt. So can somebody please tell me why on Gods green earth anyone with a brain would voluntarily buy either of these guns when it's no secret there's a problem with the bolt engaging AND problems shooting 2-3/4" light loads when on the other hand, there's guns that perform flawlessly,


What a tired old trope.

I've had the "Benelli click" once in almost 10 years of owning/hunting with them (I have a Super Vinci & SBE2), and that time was user error because I had knocked the bolt out of battery.

Can it happen? Yes.
Is it "common"? No.
Is it 1000x overblown on internet forums like this due to a hardcore vocal minority group of Benelli-haters who love to talk ad nauseum about it? Yes

And since my anecdotes are worth just a much as anyone else's, I've seen plenty of other guns fail in a duck blind for all kinds of reasons - although lack of maintenance/neglect is a pretty common theme.

Likewise, you can certainly load up some 7/8oz powderpuff load that a SBE/S.Vinci won't cycle, but you've got to go out of your way to look for one. The majority of the ammo you buy will run all day long. I've witnessed a lot more 1100s that wouldn't cycle due to being dirty or damaged o-rings than I have Benellis that wouldn't run standard 2-3/4 ammo. Am I saying 1100s are junk? Absolutely not; just saying that anything can be made to fail if you try hard enough or neglect it long enough.

Are all those other models you mentioned fine choices? Beretta, Fabarm, Remington V3/Versamax, etc.? Sure they are, I'd honestly take any of them to the field and be quite happy. But I also know I've spent enough time with inertia Benellis to know that the majority of the folks who have an axe to grind with them are not coming from an experienced, impartial, or honest point of view.


BINGO! Also, occasionally attributed to people that don’t take the time to learn how to operate their guns.

I’ve been using one Monte for approx 20 years now.....it’s as worry free as any shotgun can be. I have three other M2’s, for half that time, one was a ‘working’ gun. It had to work, and did.

Any firearm can and has hiccuped over the years. Part of the deal with mechanical objects.

Author:  oyeme [ Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman

OP: check for PM sent.

Author:  Road Rat [ Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman

Rooster booster wrote:
Fishing season already?

Get the A-5 if you want, but no reason at all to ship it off for all sorts of crap stuck on it. Plenty of choices in other guns if you can’t stand a Benelli, and plenty of choices in ammunition if you want to shoot a classic that’s just as fine for waterfowling as ever.

Contrary to popular opinion.....you don’t need camp skivvies, camp guns, or camp anything to hunt, well, anything.

You don't even NEED camo ........... yet they all go for it. MOVEMENT is what makes birds run away.

Author:  Rooster booster [ Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman

Road Rat wrote:
Rooster booster wrote:
Fishing season already?

Get the A-5 if you want, but no reason at all to ship it off for all sorts of crap stuck on it. Plenty of choices in other guns if you can’t stand a Benelli, and plenty of choices in ammunition if you want to shoot a classic that’s just as fine for waterfowling as ever.

Contrary to popular opinion.....you don’t need camp skivvies, camp guns, or camp anything to hunt, well, anything.

You don't even NEED camo ........... yet they all go for it. MOVEMENT is what makes birds run away.


Exactly right. Camp doesn’t hurt, but too many suckers wonder why their camp isn’t working when in fact they’re dancing around in the blind, and sticking their fat ‘moon pie’ up in the air.

Author:  birdhunter39 [ Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman

what the camo does is protect from rusting. that is the main benefit imo. also don't like the sticky finish benelli uses on some of their black stocks.

Author:  Rooster booster [ Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman

Kinda looking like another ‘hit and run’ post by the OP?

Author:  birdhunter39 [ Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a new Duck gun, Help please Randy Wakeman

i will admit to being very suspicious given the content and was not at all surprised to see it was OP's first post. we shall see.

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