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 Post subject: Re: Any updates to Win, super target shells vs universals?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
Posts: 5155
Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
So what, the question was about the shotgun shells! The OP is not the only one interested in the topic. He just started the discussion. I'm not going to microexamine every post before I reply to it to assure I stay strictly within everything in the original question! That would discourage a lot of people for making any comment for fear of offending the "forum police"! If you have a complaint, tell the forum moderator!




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 Post subject: Re: Any updates to Win, super target shells vs universals?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:23 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:22 pm
Posts: 468
geometric wrote:
So what, the question was about the shotgun shells! The OP is not the only one interested in the topic. He just started the discussion. I'm not going to microexamine every post before I reply to it to assure I stay strictly within everything in the original question! That would discourage a lot of people for making any comment for fear of offending the "forum police"! If you have a complaint, tell the forum moderator!

Why would I have a complaint? If you’re happy, I’m happy.

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 Post subject: Re: Any updates to Win, super target shells vs universals?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:30 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
Posts: 5155
Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
Good deal, hope you have a great day!


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 Post subject: Re: Any updates to Win, super target shells vs universals?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:43 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:49 pm
Posts: 279
Quote:
I think my buddy said he "thought" (nothing scientific, just out having fun) that the winchester was cleaner burning. I think he was saying that because I heard the Federal has a distinct smell.

The "distinct smell" in the Federal shells comes from the paper base wad used in some of the Federal promo loads.


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 Post subject: Re: Any updates to Win, super target shells vs universals?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:27 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:46 pm
Posts: 1710
Location: SW Missouri
I'll echo what others have said. Winchester Universals are to be avoided at all costs and used as an absolute last resort if you have a semi auto or pump. Yes, I said pump. I didn't think there was any shell that could muck up a pumps operation until I saw Winchester Universals do it. I have also seen them cause jamming in several different semi autos that would cycle everything else fine. I have limited experience with the Super Target loads so I can't say if they are as bad at feeding as the Universals or not. One theory on why the Universals are so bad at feeding is that the steel bases are thinner and expand more when shot and stick in the chamber causing feeding issues. I don't know if the Super Targets have the same hull or not. I guess its possible that the internal components are the same but that the Super Targets have a different hull with a better quality base on them.

I personally like Remington Gun clubs for factory loads but that's because I reload the hulls. The Federal 4 packs do really well and are supposed to have a higher antimony shot than either Gun Clubs or Universals. Unfortunately, the hulls aren't as good for reloading as Remington hulls due to the Federals being paper basewad, harder to find/more expensive loading components, poorer crimps, and shorter hull life. But if I wasn't going to reload the hulls, I would choose the Federal 4 pack 11 times out of 10 over the Universals and would probably shoot them over the Gun Clubs as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Any updates to Win, super target shells vs universals?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:42 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
Posts: 5155
Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
I don't shoot automatics or pumps, not that there is anything wrong with them but SXS's seem to work better for me. I'm too old to change horses in mid stream. I very seldom shoot factory ammo. & haven't compared them on the pattern board but about 99.9% of the time, it depend on if you hit the bird or not, as far as I can tell. However, load quality can & does make a difference, particularly in the more demanding applications. Universal hulls don't last as long & the plastic is of lower quality but with reloads, they pretty much duplicate the performance of HS hulls. I don't load them much as I have plenty of better hulls. I agree, Federal does make good ammo. & the hulls usually are more compatible with heavier loads .


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 Post subject: Re: Any updates to Winchester super target vs universal?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:13 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:33 pm
Posts: 6356
Location: Mascoutah IL
Auldthymer wrote:
Skeet_Man wrote:


Buy a 4 pack from Walmart for 20 bucks and report back.

If only that were still possible.


Every Walmart in my area is currently selling Federal 4 packs for under $20.


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 Post subject: Re: Any updates to Win, super target shells vs universals?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:21 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:11 am
Posts: 922
I think Winchester Universal's are poorly made and not inspected. I have had a number of 20 gauge Universals with crumpled forward edge of the steel case head.


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 Post subject: Re: Any updates to Win, super target shells vs universals?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:24 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:21 pm
Posts: 167
Location: NJ
Universals use "Hard Primers"

Super Target use different primers, maybe where they $ saving is, ?

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 Post subject: Re: Any updates to Win, super target shells vs universals?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:13 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:49 pm
Posts: 206
So.... I have recently started target shooting.... I'll give my two cents.

My son and I both have semi autos that we are target shooting with. Mine is a Winchester Super X 1, and his is a Remington V3 (a field gun we will use for a while before I decide to upgrade him).

Anyhow we have been to the local sporting clays course at least once a week since early August.

I have too been frequenting Walmart and Rural King for my promo loads.

I have shot a couple of flats of the Super Target shells and had no issues until the recent end of the last flat. Both of our guns had trouble with primer strikes and no firing or FTE. I honestly think that was one specific lot issue, but that is what you get for promo priced shells.

We have since started shooting the Estates Super Competition Sport Shells in 1 oz 1180 fps. They seem to be fairly soft shooting, maybe a little dirtier, but I clean my guns after each shoot regardless.

As to the best premium ammo deal we have found is the AA's in the 4 pack at Walmart. My local price is $29.xx. I tend to buy those when I see them to have some around.

I don't think you can go wrong with the super targets or the estates, but don't be surprised to get a random issue shell from either.


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 Post subject: Re: Any updates to Winchester super target vs universal?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:02 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:02 pm
Posts: 160
Skeet_Man wrote:
I would REALLY doubt there's ANY difference.

The more likely reason for two different lines is that some go through one distribution channel, some go through another.


Probably something like that. And probably some word game that allows Winchester to sell Universals to Walmart and Herters to Cabelas at dealer prices they do not offer for their Super-Targets.


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 Post subject: Re: Any updates to Win, super target shells vs universals?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:18 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:32 pm
Posts: 75
saskbooknut wrote:
I think Winchester Universal's are poorly made and not inspected. I have had a number of 20 gauge Universals with crumpled forward edge of the steel case head.


I've had exactly the same experience with several rounds straight out of the box in only a few boxes of Universals used. I mostly use Estates but have used some Super Targets with no problems so far.


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 Post subject: Re: Any updates to Win, super target shells vs universals?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:27 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:29 pm
Posts: 512
Location: Madera, Ca.
i HAVE SHOT THOUSANDS OF ROUNDS OF SUPER TARGETS. NEVER AN ISSUE

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 Post subject: Re: Any updates to Win, super target shells vs universals?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:41 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:12 pm
Posts: 1298
Location: South east Michigan
tractman wrote:
i HAVE SHOT THOUSANDS OF ROUNDS OF SUPER TARGETS. NEVER AN ISSUE

I also

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 Post subject: Re: Any updates to Win, super target shells vs universals?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:58 am 
Tournament Grade
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:30 pm
Posts: 130
Location: IL
I haven’t bought Universals in years but now my curious mind wants to buy both and cut 1 open just to compare the 2. In my opinion there is no way they can be the same internally. I have had nothing but positive results from Super Targets, and they are much cleaner than the Universals....so there has to be a different wad, primer, powder combination in my mind at least!



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