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 Post subject: J.P. Sauer & Sohn 1919
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:59 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:53 am
Posts: 16
Hello,
I want to buy this shotgun to a friend and would like for someone to tell me something about it. It's a 1919 J.P. Sauer & Sohn. I can not determine which model is...
Overall this gun is in pretty excellent shape, apart for some scratches on woodwork. What might it's value be? Do not need exact value.
Thanks!!!
[img][[IMG]http://i65.tinypic.com/n1wew5.jpg[/img] Image
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 Post subject: Re: J.P. Sauer & Sohn 1919
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:59 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:15 am
Posts: 22793
Location: Knoxville, Tn area Nyuck, Nyuck
Apparently their images do not work here.
Copy them to imgur.com

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 Post subject: Re: J.P. Sauer & Sohn 1919
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:19 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:53 am
Posts: 16
Thanks Curly N!


Last edited by PADRILLO on Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: J.P. Sauer & Sohn 1919
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:25 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 11:49 am
Posts: 5345
Location: Southwest Georgia, USA
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 Post subject: Re: J.P. Sauer & Sohn 1919
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:26 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:53 am
Posts: 16
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 Post subject: Re: J.P. Sauer & Sohn 1919
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:31 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:53 am
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 Post subject: Re: J.P. Sauer & Sohn 1919
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:34 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:03 pm
Posts: 3785
Location: Mid-Missouri
Oh my . . . :o

That's not your ordinary Sauer.


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 Post subject: Re: J.P. Sauer & Sohn 1919
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:02 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:32 pm
Posts: 468
Gorgeous.


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 Post subject: Re: J.P. Sauer & Sohn 1919
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:25 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:53 am
Posts: 16
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 Post subject: Re: J.P. Sauer & Sohn 1919
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:46 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 11:49 am
Posts: 5345
Location: Southwest Georgia, USA
20 and 28 gauge barrels, wow! What is the back story on this gun? How did your friend acquire it? A source says Sicher means for the domestic market (Germany) and one made for foreign sales would have Safe instead of Sicher.


Last edited by albanygun on Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: J.P. Sauer & Sohn 1919
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:53 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:53 am
Posts: 16
20 and 32 gauge barrels. My friend inherited her grandfather's.


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 Post subject: Re: J.P. Sauer & Sohn 1919
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:06 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 11:49 am
Posts: 5345
Location: Southwest Georgia, USA
From other sources, Sicher means for the Domestic market (Germany) and Safe for foreign markets. Also, check the size of the 14 mm barrels as I came up with 28 gauge.
Was your friends grandfather in Germany during WWII?


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 Post subject: Re: J.P. Sauer & Sohn 1919
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:12 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:53 am
Posts: 16
Was your friends grandfather in Germany during WWII?
No, was imported to Argentina:

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 Post subject: Re: J.P. Sauer & Sohn 1919
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:25 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:24 pm
Posts: 1054
Location: North Alabama
Now that is just a lovely Meisterwerk being a Modell Nr. 18, De Luxe, in 20 Bore & 28 Bore and I believe the same as a Schoverling, Daly & Gales Modell Nr. 60. It is an upgrade of the Modell Nr. 17 with chopperlump 3 Ringe Weapons Grade Steel(3 Ringe Krupp Gewehrlauf Stahl) tubeset which wears a Doll's Head extension paired with a Greener Crossbolt, all but being a special order offering. It wears one of the Sauer Crowns so I'd say the Crown to denote superb craftsmanship. It was the Best @ its time in the Golden Age of Shotgunning & probably the Best one could acquire ever? Although the term Sicher is present, it doesn't have the cocking indicators/signal pins/snails ears so I'd say it was destined for the retailer or custodian in Argentina and not an inland offering.

Do you reside in Argentina?


Cheers,

Raimey
rse


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 Post subject: Re: J.P. Sauer & Sohn 1919
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:32 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:24 pm
Posts: 1054
Location: North Alabama
Seems like the retailer AD. Voelker, Buenos Aires, San Martin 319, Argentina peddled a few Sauers from his boutique/tienda:

https://www.morphyauctions.com/jamesdju ... /2335-373/

Cheers,

Raimey
rse


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 Post subject: Re: J.P. Sauer & Sohn 1919
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:37 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:24 pm
Posts: 1054
Location: North Alabama
Any chance you can better read the odd stamp under the Crown over S paired w/ an Imperial Eagle? MM on the lower rib is typical w/ a mechanic @ Sauer along w/ the encircled AZ on the water-table. I forgot to note that it has vents on the standing breech along with a straight-hand stock. I'd say the adornment of the barrel bands @ the business end of the tube is unique & it is a paired w/ a lovely case; 2 barrel case I assume? Any name on it?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse


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 Post subject: Re: J.P. Sauer & Sohn 1919
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:40 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:24 pm
Posts: 1054
Location: North Alabama
I'd have to check the proof tables for the 1912 rules, but more than likely the reason the 28 bore is stamped 14mm is that there wasn't proof data for the 28 bore designation so either AD. Voelker, Buenos Aires, San Martin 319, or his contact, had to supply the 14mm cartridge data. Then again, maybe the 14mm data would suffice?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse


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 Post subject: Re: J.P. Sauer & Sohn 1919
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:44 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:24 pm
Posts: 1054
Location: North Alabama
One last comment, due to the high order of craftsmanship here, I would date it to circa 1923. Is there any supporting data to date it to 1919? But then again, the difference is only a couple years.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse


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 Post subject: Re: J.P. Sauer & Sohn 1919
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:05 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:53 am
Posts: 16
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 Post subject: Re: J.P. Sauer & Sohn 1919
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:12 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:24 pm
Posts: 1054
Location: North Alabama
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Lovely effort as that is indeed the touchmark. Probably a S in a shield?

Cheers,

Raimey




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