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 Post subject: Date a JP Sauer and Sohn?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:33 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:22 pm
Posts: 32
Location: North Alabama
ImageImage

I'm a long time lurker. I've wanted an early 2.5in Game Gun for a long time and the rotating cocking indicators on this one caught my attention. I figure a few RST will scratch that itch for this type of very light 12 bore. It has 30in barrels, bores are good but probably honed at some point and the straight grip stock is nice and solid. Weighs just a bit over 6 lbs. My question is why no date? Any thoughts? Thanks, I really enjoy the whole forum.




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 Post subject: Re: Date a JP Sauer and Sohn?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:00 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:03 pm
Posts: 173
I don't think the date codes were required until the 1920s but were optional.

This DG post suggest your 131,xxx number is 1907 production

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ub ... ber=402134

This source suggests per the Crown over U and Crown over W that it is between 1891 and 1939
http://www.shotguns.se/html/germany_1890-1945.html


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 Post subject: Re: Date a JP Sauer and Sohn?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:26 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:22 pm
Posts: 32
Location: North Alabama
Thanks! It looks pretty good for a 1907 birth. Its much lighter than I expected. Those 7/8oz RST shells will be plenty.
Image

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Image


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 Post subject: Re: Date a JP Sauer and Sohn?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:16 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:24 pm
Posts: 1167
Location: North Alabama
Looks like it wears a Sauer Quality Crown. 32 grammes of lead shot is pretty heavy along with 2,2 grammes of Schultze poudre. Interesting marks and this is a lovely Modell Nr. 14(?) with upper & lower intercepting scears. A very desirable Sauer Platform.


Serbus,

Raimey
rse


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 Post subject: Re: Date a JP Sauer and Sohn?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 12:30 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:22 pm
Posts: 32
Location: North Alabama
Thank you! Thanks to this forum and others when I saw the extra screw and the blade indicator I knew it was a good quality gun. The buttplate is plain (no entwined S) but its seen use. I'm scrubbing the bores now, they have a good shine but some waviness to it that I wonder about. The bead sight is missing and will need to be replaced. I look forward to shooting it when the lite RST's are back in stock. It's all very "svelte" and needs those lite loads. Image


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 Post subject: Re: Date a JP Sauer and Sohn?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 3:41 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:24 pm
Posts: 1167
Location: North Alabama
Fantastic straight-hand stock, my favourite.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse


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 Post subject: Re: Date a JP Sauer and Sohn?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 6:53 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:22 pm
Posts: 32
Location: North Alabama
With such a light weight gun what did they hunt? What was the style of hunting? Dogs or driven? What were shotshells like in 1907?


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 Post subject: Re: Date a JP Sauer and Sohn?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:41 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:03 pm
Posts: 173
The shotshells of 1907 were paper formed hulls, felt or fiber wads, soft lead shot, and likely roll crimped rather than the pie shaped folded crimps of today's shells. Newer nitro based smokeless powders were in use but some people would still shoot black powder shells. The modern plastic hull and the one piece plastic wad with obturating skirt, shot cup, and plastic petals was not developed until after WWII -- basically the 1950s and early 1960s. That is one reason the old vintage guns and their chokes were so tight on these guns--- the inefficiency of the shotshells of their day and their failure to cushion and protect the soft lead shot in its trip up the bore. When soft round lead shot gets deformed or flattened it doesn't fly very "true."

The Germans and Austrians had a upland heritage of hunting for both fur and feather in the same outing or trip. Rabbits, foxes, etc. and grouse, pheasant, upland birds, and waterfowl. The same can be seen in their choice of hunting dogs--they bred and hunted over "versatile dogs" for this very reason-- the ability to hunt, track and retrieve fur bearing critters, uplands birds, and waterfowl. So they would breed and train their dogs for multiple quarry. I listened to a podcast recently on Continental / versatile hunting dog development that commented that German hunters were expected and even obliged to shoot foxes etc. that they encountered as a means of keeping these predator populations in check and saving domestic fowl like chickens and geese from excessive predation. Interesting hunting tradition. Another reason the Germans and Austrians gunmakers were so fond of making and using "combination" guns like shotgun- rifle combos and drillings (two shotgun barrels and a third rifled barrel in the same weapon.) The design, craftsmanship and engineering of such a weapon is amazing.

I suspect the aristocracy had "driven shoots" on large estates similar to the English aristocracy at least before WWI, but the burgeoning middle class of merchants, professionals, established tradesmen, etc. likely hunted in small parties or individually over dogs-- what would be called "walk up" shooting or "rough shooting" in England.

Check out these early 20th century postcards on the German Hunting Guns website.
http://www.germanhuntingguns.com/huntin ... ng-scenes/




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