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 Post subject: CA law concerning gun sales????
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:00 am 
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I just saw an auction for a Remington 90-T on Gun Broker that says they won't ship to CA because of some new law. Anyone know what that law is? I don't know of any restrictions on shotguns being shipped to CA.



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 Post subject: re: CA law concerning gun sales????
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:36 am 
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it is not just shotguns, it is ALL FIREARMS

it is called California Firearms Licensee Check System (CFLC)

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/cflcoverview.php

On July 1st, 2008, California will prohibit all FFL License Holders from shipping firearms to an FFL in California unless a verification approval number is provided by the California Department of Justice.

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 Post subject: re: CA law concerning gun sales????
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:54 am 
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Because Kaliforians keep electing commie politicians, maybe we should just give the whole state to China. Wet Backs included.


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 Post subject: re: CA law concerning gun sales????
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:49 pm 
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OK, but isn't it free and quick to get this number?

sittingducker,
I asked a question about a law I wasn't familiar with. If you want to bash my state with prejudicial and ignorant comments start your own thread. Your comments are neither wanted or welcome here. It's people like you that give forums like this a bad name. If you have something to say to me personally, I will be happy to respond to your PM.

Please stay out of this discussion unless you have something intelligent to add.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:49 pm 
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Sorry, I double posted so I erased this one.


Last edited by fnj682 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: re: CA law concerning gun sales????
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:53 pm 
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Quote:
OK, but isn't it free and quick to get this number?


Yes it is.
Unfortunately for us, many FFL dealers outside of CA are unsure of the law and are not willing to chance sending to CA.

I think that there will be a learning curve for FFL's and most dealers will go through the extra paperwork to make the sale to Californians.

It's too bad that we have to go through some of these laws that seem to do nothing more than create more work for our shrinker number of FFL dealers.


Last edited by fnj682 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: re: CA law concerning gun sales????
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:17 pm 
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I wonder if the Heller decision will strike down that law in CA...


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 Post subject: Re: re: CA law concerning gun sales????
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:22 pm 
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drsfmd wrote:
I wonder if the Heller decision will strike down that law in CA...

I don't think it will affect this law at all. This law has nothing to do with your right to own a gun. It only deals with the transfer of fire arms from one FFL to another. It doesn't affect your right to own or use a fire arm in your home.

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 Post subject: re: CA law concerning gun sales????
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:25 pm 
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What are the laws regarding Californians just buying guns in neighboring states? I know it's silly to have to go to another state but...

I'm new to California so what I wonder is how did something like this get passed in the first place? Why was there no one on record in the document opposed to this? Not even the NRA? and who wrote it and passed it so I can vote against them?

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 Post subject: re: CA law concerning gun sales????
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:05 pm 
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Is it really a "law" that got "passed"?

Sounds more like an edict, from the bureaucrats to me!

That is what happens when you give them too much power!

Or not slap their hands when they pull something like what this seems to be.

Too many govt. agencies running amok! Everybody wants to be the biggest toad in the puddle! Empire building!

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 Post subject: Re: re: CA law concerning gun sales????
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:48 pm 
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jugchoke wrote:
Is it really a "law" that got "passed"?

Read Banshee's post or more importantly the link. It starts by saying, "...California Penal Code Section 12072(f)(1)..." and I'm pretty sure the Penal Code is the law. Of course I could be wrong...

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 Post subject: re: CA law concerning gun sales????
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:55 pm 
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There are "laws" by fiat and laws that get "passed", by vote.

The question is, just which is this one?

The EPA tried to institute a bunch of transportation rules, (which would have become law), a while back and got shot down. Those were on how ammo, powder, primers, etc. were going to have go be shipped, read trucked.

Got their hands slapped, were really overstepping their bounds. Getting into the DOT jurisdiction.

Those govt. agencies try such things all the time. As I said, biggest toad in the puddle, IF they can get away with it. "See just how big and important we are!" Empire building.

I have actually seen one Federal agency, come on to the site of another, with armed guards on duty, around the perimeter, guns drawn and take the local one down. Thank God, cool heads in the trenches prevailed and nothing got out of hand, as far as gun play went. But there were some serious environmental contamination, and other issues that were never made public.

Can you tell me, did you, or did you not, vote on this particular law, and if not, why not?

If you didn't get to vote on it, then it was an edict, or law by fiat. Basically just some maybe elected, or maybe only appointed bureaucrats, making law, right out of their own a$$, so to speak.

At best, some bureaucrats wrote it, and the legislature approved it.

Sounds like plain harassment to me. Of the local dealers, the out of state dealers, and the customer. If the state doesn't have an up to date list of instate dealers, (WHAT???), then all of them are going to have to jump through hoops, every time. At first glance this seems to make the Bureau appear very important, when in reality, all it really does is show their incompetence!

We have a bit of the same thing here. One can not license an automobile, without showing a "green card", which states that you are up to date in paying your county taxes. Now, just what good does that card do? Absolutely nothing, all they have to do is look it up on the computer, and get a much more timely answer! But no, the onus is on the customer.

At least we finally got rid of our local pi$tol background check, (yes duplicated by the Feds), and a new one, for every purchase, even if buying another, in less than a week. And these local ones were not instant.

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 Post subject: re: CA law concerning gun sales????
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:59 pm 
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Jugchoke,

From my understanding this law started out as a bill that passed by majority vote of both houses of the California State Legislature and then was signed into law by the Governor. In essence, it was voted on and passed by the elected officials of the State. This was not a ballet question in which the general citizens of the State were given an opportunity to vote on, nor is this just some new policy mandated by some top level employee at State's Department of Justice.

I have not spent the time, but I am pretty sure that if someone was to dig hard enough they should be able to come up with exactly which assemblyman and/or senator initial sponsored the bill, which committee drafted and debated it, as well as a final voting record which lists every official by name and whether they voted for, against or abstained from voting on the bill.

Unfortunately, I think that the State of California probably did everything by the book and as of today July 1st, the law is now as described. I certainly dont like it and I dont even live there. I can only imagine how ticked off the sportsmen, gun dealers and shooters that live there are!


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 Post subject: Re: re: CA law concerning gun sales????
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:01 pm 
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Thanks Cobra! That is what I was trying to find out!

Not quite bureaucrats in the normal sense of the word, but with today's length of stay, both in the state legislatures and congress as well, you just as well call them that. Or as "you sees 'em!" Not much difference!

Likely used it to justify themselves a raise as well! "Gosh, see how important we are?"

jugchoke wrote:
At best, some bureaucrats wrote it, and the legislature approved it.

Sounds like plain harassment to me.


And I still think the last statement describes it best.

Now what is needed is for the voters to turn the bastards out into the street! Time that the dumb clucks went to real work for a change!

Same thing needed all over the country, and especially in DC!

Don't let them get so entrenched that they can make themselves troublesome!

Term limits, no more than two on everything!

Get rid of the "professionals"! Don't let them make a career out of medaling!

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 Post subject: re: CA law concerning gun sales????
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:56 pm 
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Since I turned 18 and started voting, I've never seen a gun law voted on by the general public. That doesn't mean it hasn't happened, I just haven't seen one on a ballet I've voted on.

In the USA we vote on things some what by proxy in that we elect officials to take care of these things for us. This is how our government is supposed to work. Unfortunately, the elected officials don't always have our best interest in mind.

This is exactly the kind of law that brings in other more strict laws. On the surface it sounds OK, I mean what's wrong with verifying that the gun is really being sent to the proper place? It doesn't even cost anything.

However, I don't believe that's why it was written. The authors are ignorant of how gun traffic works. They believe that by reducing the number of guns coming into this state through lawful dealers, it will reduce the number of gun crimes. The truth is that most crimes committed with guns were committed with illegal guns. This law won't do anything except take guns out of lawful citizens. This will increase the gun crime rate.

We would do well to take a hint from DC.

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 Post subject: Re: CA law concerning gun sales????
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:59 am 
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The FFL I use in Sacramento tells me the only thing he needs to receive a firearm from an out of state private individual is a copy of his driver's license.
There are some who won't ship here, but, there's no reason for it, other than they don't know the laws.

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 Post subject: Re: CA law concerning gun sales????
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:37 am 
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edlacy wrote:
The FFL I use in Sacramento tells me the only thing he needs to receive a firearm from an out of state private individual is a copy of his driver's license.
There are some who won't ship here, but, there's no reason for it, other than they don't know the laws.



I don't believe that is quite true, so who is it that doesn't know the laws?

My local dealer here in MO. claims that his paperwork at least quadruples, and the time it takes is considerably more than that, to ship a gun to CA. and he won't/wouldn't do it for quadruple the $.

When he has sold a gun, he wants to get it shipped in a day or two at most, not having the thing still on hand, up to weeks later, waiting for paperwork from CA.

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 Post subject: Re: CA law concerning gun sales????
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:27 am 
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jugchoke,
You are misinformed. When I started this thread, a year ago, I was ignorant of some new legislation called the CFLC. The CFLC is another piece of useless gun law, but we nevertheless have to deal with it.

Your FFL is acting on rumors and innuendo and should read the law before making such outrageous statements. First off edlacy is correct and there is no difference for an individual to ship to CA. In fact he doesn't even have to copy his drivers license, but most receiving FFLs will request positive ID. Secondly, if the gun is being shipped from an FFL, there is one piece of paper that needs to b faxed to the CADOJ first and a shipment number faxed back. From all the people I've talked to, and I've talked to a lot, this process takes about 5-10 minutes. I have no idea where he got the thought that it would take weeks, but he is completely wrong on that score.

Your FFL has the right to sell to, or not, anyone he desires. Some people choose to be ignorant, that's their choice. The CFLC is a pain, I won't deny that, but it doesn't affect an individual at all and is only slightly invasive to an FFL.

Check this out: CFLC FAQ

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 Post subject: Re: CA law concerning gun sales????
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:59 am 
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If you read some of the comments the FFL gun dealers post on Gunbroker you will see that their refusal to send guns to California is more of a protest to the new regulations than anything else.

Anyway, doesn't the new requirments just create a even stronger black market in guns?


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 Post subject: Re: CA law concerning gun sales????
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:27 pm 
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[quote="Rastoff"]jugchoke,
You are misinformed. When I started this thread, a year ago, I was ignorant of some new legislation called the CFLC. The CFLC is another piece of useless gun law, but we nevertheless have to deal with it.

Your FFL is acting on rumors and innuendo and should read the law before making such outrageous statements. Secondly, if the gun is being shipped from an FFL, there is one piece of paper that needs to b faxed to the CADOJ first and a shipment number faxed back. From all the people I've talked to, and I've talked to a lot, this process takes about 5-10 minutes. I have no idea where he got the thought that it would take weeks, but he is completely wrong on that score.

quote]


He can go to the Federal site and find the CA. dealer, proving well enough to everyone concerned, that the dealer is ligit. But that is not good enough for CA. He has to submit that receiving dealer to CA. for their seperate OK, for shipment. 10-15 minutes, I don't think so!

The big dealers can afford the software, (from CA., maybe on a seperate computer, and big dealers will have some sort of computer guru to keep things safe. Who wants to let CA. have access to their computer?), to justify such "speed ups", but for the little "hole in the wall", one or two man operation, it is not so feasable.

He says it is just too "intrusive" and time comsuming. Not worth the hassle.

I really don't think you guys, living in CA. realize what it takes from the "out of state" dealers.

But of course, its your law makers! (As you yourself said, totally unnecessary!)

I maybe wrong, but such is what a number of small dealers have told me here. And everyone I know has refused to jump through the hoops.



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