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 Post subject: Re: 2nd amendment restrictions
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:15 pm 
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casonet wrote:
There aren’t any conservatives left inSan Francisco. Have you been living under a rock?


There are in Oregon.

http://www.schoolbug.org/school-410474000562.html

And also in Compton California.

https://kles-compton-ca.schoolloop.com/

And Humansville Elementary honors African American Judge James Gillian Human, and almost all the streets there are named after dead Republicans.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/315 ... liam-human

Every kid that attends is taught that today.

——
Founder of Humansville, Missouri and an early Polk County judge and legislator.

He served as Captain Levi Boone's First Lieutenant in the Black Hawk War and briefly as a Private in the 8th Missouri State Militia Cavalry during the Civil War in the company that would later be commanded by his son, Captain William C. Human. He also took political roles as a "pro-Benton" (anti-expansion of slavery) Missouri legislator, and as an anti-Slicker during the Slicker War.

James was born in 1798 to parents Basil and Winnifred (George) Human. His father left his mother when he was young, and he was effectively raised by a single mother. He was a pioneer who lived in several places in Tennessee and Illinois before settling in Polk County, Missouri in the 1830's. He discovered the "Big Spring," around which Humansville, Missouri was founded.
——

He fought that men might live free.



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 Post subject: Re: 2nd amendment restrictions
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:51 pm 
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Back to Heller, anyone care to guess why our nations service rifle, the M16 is not "in common use"?

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 Post subject: Re: 2nd amendment restrictions
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:58 pm 
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Quote:
He fought that men might live free.


Who would he have fought so that men might live free? Did it come to using weapons and did he have weapons equal to his opponent's?

The men who put the 2nd Amendment in the Constitution had great familiarity with using weapons equal to, or as nearly equal as they could be, to the British Army. THAT is why the 2nd Amendment reads the way it does because THAT is the exact scenario they envisioned.

OF COURSE the military would like for the best of weapons to be "military only." But that's not the way the 2nd Amendment reads nor was it intended to be interpreted that way.

How many M16's have been given away throughout the world by the US Government to enable people in other countries to resist or overthrow THEIR government? What's the justification for that when Americans are denied M16's?

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 Post subject: Re: 2nd amendment restrictions
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:01 pm 
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Ezra Smack wrote:
Back to Heller, anyone care to guess why our nations service rifle, the M16 is not "in common use"?
Because Americans were never allowed to put them in common use. And the reason for that is our government (Swamp) is terrified of US citizens.

_________________
The root(s) of all evil:
-Political Correctness
-Insurance
-Securitization
Take your pick.

Always make an even number of mistakes. One may cancel out another.

"People who enjoy meetings should not be in charge of anything." --Thomas Sowell


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 Post subject: Re: 2nd amendment restrictions
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:23 pm 
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Zbigniew wrote:
Quote:
He fought that men might live free.


Who would he have fought so that men might live free? Did it come to using weapons and did he have weapons equal to his opponent's?

The men who put the 2nd Amendment in the Constitution had great familiarity with using weapons equal to, or as nearly equal as they could be, to the British Army. THAT is why the 2nd Amendment reads the way it does because THAT is the exact scenario they envisioned.

OF COURSE the military would like for the best of weapons to be "military only." But that's not the way the 2nd Amendment reads nor was it intended to be interpreted that way.

How many M16's have been given away throughout the world by the US Government to enable people in other countries to resist or overthrow THEIR government? What's the justification for that when Americans are denied M16's?



Or using us as Mercenaries to remove the governments of other countries.

They are the World's Biggest Hypocrites.

Every American should be able to own a M-16 or In my case M-14.


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 Post subject: Re: 2nd amendment restrictions
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:46 pm 
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So in effect they have circumvented the 2A making it say in effect:

The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, unless we make a law to infringe upon it.

There is a legal way for congress to restrict the 2A. It is another constitutional amendment.
Just like when they lifted alcohol prohibition. Until they can pass that, the 2A should be immune from any act of congress. Just like religion and free speech.

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 Post subject: Re: 2nd amendment restrictions
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:46 pm 
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Ezra Smack wrote:
Back to Heller, anyone care to guess why our nations service rifle, the M16 is not "in common use"?


It’s has a select fire switch and thereby has been severely taxed and regulated like all other machine guns since 1934, and there was a May 1986 freeze that stopped all new production for the civilian market. Machine guns are outlawed in several states, as well.

Congress could have classified semi auto only version in 1968 but did not.

Since then over 17 million legal Armalite system rifles are in common use today in the USA, with millions more being built each year.

But not the military M16 variants which are machine guns.

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 Post subject: Re: 2nd amendment restrictions
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:51 pm 
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And what part of the 2A mentions exceptions for select fire switches?

If you don't like the 2A, write your congressman and get the 2A rescinded.

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 Post subject: Re: 2nd amendment restrictions
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:01 pm 
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Interesting to see what the founders wrote for their own state constitutions when the work on the US constitution was done.


New Hampshire
ART. XIV. A well-regulated militia is the proper, natural, and sure defense of a State.

Vermont
XVIII. That the people have a right to bear arms, for the defense of themselves and the State: and as standing armies, in the time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; and that the military should be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by the civil power.

New York
XL. And whereas it is of the utmost importance to the safety of every State that it should always be in a condition of defense; and it is the duty of every man who enjoys the protection of society to be prepared and willing to defend it; this convention therefore, in the name and by the authority of the good people of this State, doth ordain, determine, and declare that the militia of this State, at all times hereafter, as well in peace as in war, shall be armed and disciplined, and in readiness for service. That all such of the inhabitants of this State being of the people called Quakers as, from scruples of conscience, may be averse to the bearing of arms, be therefrom excused by the legislature; and do pay to the State such sums of money, in lieu of their personal service, as the same; may, in the judgment of the legislature, be worth.  And that a proper magazine of warlike stores, proportionate to the number of inhabitants, be, forever hereafter, at the expense of this State, and by acts of the legislature, established, maintained, and continued in every county in this State.

Kentucky
XXIII. The rights of the citizens to bear arms in defence (sic) of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.

Rhode Island
Sec. 22. The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Connecticut
17. Every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state.

Virginia
SEC. 13. That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free State; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided, as dangerous to liberty; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power. .

North Carolina
XVII. That the people have a right to bear arms, for the defense of the State; and, as standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; and that the military should be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.

Pennsylvania
XIII. That the people have a right to bear arms for the defense of themselves and the state; and as standing armies in the time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; And that the military should be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.

Maryland
XXV. That a well-regulated militia is the proper and natural defense of a free government.

Massachusetts
Art. XVII. The people have a right to keep and to bear arms for the common defense. And as, in time of peace, armies are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be maintained without the consent of the legislature; and the military power shall always be held in an exact subordination to the civil authority and be governed by it.


Make of that what you will. I found references to bearing arms in these 11 states. Just a quick search, I’m not saying it is all inclusive. I see a common thread.


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 Post subject: Re: 2nd amendment restrictions
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:04 pm 
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Ezra Smack wrote:
So in effect they have circumvented the 2A making it say in effect:

The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, unless we make a law to infringe upon it.

There is a legal way for congress to restrict the 2A. It is another constitutional amendment.
Just like when they lifted alcohol prohibition. Until they can pass that, the 2A should be immune from any act of congress. Just like religion and free speech.


No, not exactly.

Scalia divided the amendment into two parts

The first part reaffirms a state needs a well regulated militia

The second part, establishes a constitutional security for the ancient right to keep and bear arms, more than a thousand years older than the constitution

What is that ancient right?

That of the people to own and use ordinary weapons in common use for their self defense.

But M16s and the like and other unusually dangerous weapons (bombs, grenades, rocket launchers, machine guns, rockets, etc) are only for the military.

So first, if it’s a machine gun, or grenade, or M16 and the like, it’s for the military, and we don’t get those cool toys to play with unless we join the army.

We get the ordinary guns, such as bolt action rifles, pump shotguns, automatic shotguns, pistols and revolvers, probably every single shooting iron you own or want to own, except there’s a problem.

An AR15, honestly, is just an M16 without a selector switch.

But let’s say you don’t have an AR-15, just Fudd guns.

Reasonable restrictions on Fudd guns, is not infringement.

What’s infringement?

A circuit appeals court ruled that less than 10 round restrictions on magazines are,

And that outlawing slide action military style weapons might be.

Otherwise, you’d better

1. Join the NRA

2. Act responsibly with guns

3. Take a non shooting friend or family member to the range

Because it’s a political question

If the do gooders decide to treat our guns like conservatives treat the right to abortion,,,,

It’s bad, friend, it’s bad.

If you cared about the ancient right to an abortion, enjoyed for over a thousand years, then you’d be SOL in red states where politicians pass the maximum restrictions (and then some) the courts let them get away with.

Something like that is done to gun rights in California, and New York, and other liberal states.

They almost always, get away with it.

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 Post subject: Re: 2nd amendment restrictions
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:48 pm 
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SuperXone: the supreme court has not been a court in your lifetime. Starting in 1934 the court has been picked for their political views, race or gender, so there not judges in the real definition: there just political appointed guys. Who vote how the people that appointed tell them to.


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 Post subject: Re: 2nd amendment restrictions
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:05 pm 
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There is no right to an abortion.

Quote:
What is that ancient right?

That of the people to own and use ordinary weapons in common use for their self defense.

But M16s and the like and other unusually dangerous weapons (bombs, grenades, rocket launchers, machine guns, rockets, etc) are only for the military.


Imagine this scenario:
A person you despise has become President. He decides to suspend any future elections, and silence his enemies. He has full control of the US military to enforce his will.

What do you do, SuperXOne? Would you be happy that Dear Leader has allowed you to keep an 'ordinary' weapon? How do you get your country back or do you care that it's gone?

Please leave Scalia out of it. I want to hear YOUR answers, not his opinions.

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The root(s) of all evil:
-Political Correctness
-Insurance
-Securitization
Take your pick.

Always make an even number of mistakes. One may cancel out another.

"People who enjoy meetings should not be in charge of anything." --Thomas Sowell


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 Post subject: Re: 2nd amendment restrictions
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:07 am 
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dannyd93140 wrote:
SuperXone: the supreme court has not been a court in your lifetime. Starting in 1934 the court has been picked for their political views, race or gender, so there not judges in the real definition: there just political appointed guys. Who vote how the people that appointed tell them to.



When FDR tried to expand the number of judges on the court it politically backfired on him.

And Justice Owens became a little more liberal, known as the switch in time that saved nine.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_swi ... saved_nine

Politics isn’t supposed to enter Supreme Court decisions and in about 99% of cases they decide to take it honestly doesn’t seem to matter. 2+2 is always four. The world is round. Only the army gets M16s and the like. It’s patently obvious to all nine, no matter which nine.

If the current pending law passes (it will not) that in essence treats any gun that looks, walks. talks, and chews up ammunition the same way as an M16 subject to the exact, same NFA regulations as pre May 1986 M16s, and that’s really what it does, then maybe just maybe, Clarence Thomas and/or Alito would dissent from approval.

When those old men are gone, the nine won’t have any staunch Second Amemdment advocates left.

But wait, there’s good news, just a sliver.

Even liberals concede the sheer brilliance of Anton Scalia.

For a hundred years to come, overturning Heller would be like overturning an opinion written by Olivier Wendell Holmes.

Scalia was truly the greatest legal mind to sit on the court in the last fifty years at least.

And there would still be fifty state legal slide action ARs even if the current bill passes, only with ten round magazines.

https://www.dark-storm.com/

I could still get a kick of of watching my Amish renter and his friends shoot up trash dumps with a slide action clip loaded AR, or my existing Remington Model 81, both exempted.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_Model_8

Like Will Rogers said, Prohibition of Armalites would be better than no Armalites at all.:)

And by the way, speaking of Pre May M16s, if somebody were to sneak into any new that requires existing AR-15s to be taxed and registered and licensed the same as Pre May 1986 M16s, that by by election to pay the tax you got to use the same sear and selector switch as a Pre May 1986 M16, so that your new toy blaster would really go rat-a-tat-tat,,,,

There’d be a brand new auto sear industry spring up.

People would gorge on those like they do suppressors today.

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 Post subject: Re: 2nd amendment restrictions
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:16 am 
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Image

George seemed to have the right thought, but back in his day there weren’t much difference between the arms the army had and what the people had. If you were in the militia, you just reported with the gun you had at home. Not sure if any private folks had cannons and war ships, but I suppose a wealthy few might have toyed with that.

The problem is weapons have drastically increased in destruction capability. Do you really want a private right to own a nuclear bomb? Seems the crazies do well enough with conventional explosives ... just ask the folks of Nashville as only the most recent example.

So where do you draw the line? The problem is the crazies.

I do believe we do need to defend from government over reach. Dictators and commies always pull the guns as the first act of maintaining control along with free speech and a free press.

For me, semi auto ARs fall on the civilian side of the line along with high capacity magazines. We’d still get crushed by the US military, but hopefully enough of them defect and take there toys too in the next civil war should it come to that.

In the meantime a way to keep the crazies at bay is needed. Another Los Vegas ain’t gonna be good.


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 Post subject: Re: 2nd amendment restrictions
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:44 am 
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Everyone knows Abe Lincoln taught us to beware of what we read on the internet.

This is what Washington said in his first state of the union address. (according to mountvernon.org)

"A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well-digested plan is requisite; and their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories as tend to render them independent of others for essential, particularly military, supplies."

Most seem to believe he wishes to promote an American arms manufacturing industry.

If anyone can find accounts in original documents related to the second amendment and government tyranny I would welcome seeing them.


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 Post subject: Re: 2nd amendment restrictions
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:34 am 
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Well I guess you can’t believe everything you see tacked to the wall of the bathroom at the gun club! :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: 2nd amendment restrictions
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:43 am 
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Thanks for not answering the few simple questions I asked of you.

That says more than if you had.

_________________
The root(s) of all evil:
-Political Correctness
-Insurance
-Securitization
Take your pick.

Always make an even number of mistakes. One may cancel out another.

"People who enjoy meetings should not be in charge of anything." --Thomas Sowell


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 Post subject: Re: 2nd amendment restrictions
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:50 am 
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Here is a well researched law review note on the tyranny position. See section B for a historical perspective. Bonus points for anyone digesting this if your are not fluent in legal ease!

https://law.siu.edu/_common/documents/l ... -Final.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: 2nd amendment restrictions
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:18 am 
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Patently Obvious wrote:
Well I guess you can’t believe everything you see tacked to the wall of the bathroom at the gun club! :lol:


I know, right ? I called that number once and I certainly was not promised a “good time”.

I’m in the process of reading the reference you supplied, thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: 2nd amendment restrictions
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:41 am 
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Patently Obvious wrote:
Image

George seemed to have the right thought, but back in his day there weren’t much difference between the arms the army had and what the people had. If you were in the militia, you just reported with the gun you had at home. Not sure if any private folks had cannons and war ships, but I suppose a wealthy few might have toyed with that.

The problem is weapons have drastically increased in destruction capability. Do you really want a private right to own a nuclear bomb? Seems the crazies do well enough with conventional explosives ... just ask the folks of Nashville as only the most recent example.

So where do you draw the line? The problem is the crazies.

I do believe we do need to defend from government over reach. Dictators and commies always pull the guns as the first act of maintaining control along with free speech and a free press.

For me, semi auto ARs fall on the civilian side of the line along with high capacity magazines. We’d still get crushed by the US military, but hopefully enough of them defect and take there toys too in the next civil war should it come to that.

In the meantime a way to keep the crazies at bay is needed. Another Los Vegas ain’t gonna be good.



That quote is an absolute fraud, taken out of context and with forged language.

Here’s what George Washington really said:

—-

According to the National Archives site Founder’s Online, during his Jan. 8, 1790, speech to Congress, Washington said: “A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well-digested plan is requisite; and their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories as tend to render them independent of others for essential, particularly military, supplies.”



Why our firearms rights are truly threatened today, is that the enemies of them are not supermen, or more clever, not even better educated.

They use Google. As a very general rule, we love our guns much more than facts, logic, and truth.

Not all of us.

The ability to be open to the the fact we might be in error, makes old time Christian gun owners constantly seek more truths and not fictions to support the ancient right to arms.

The Disciples of Christ were armed. We read in scripture that not only dod Jesus not want to die, he exclaimed if one does not have a sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.

https://biblehub.com/luke/22-36.htm

Peter, the disciple that would deny Him thrice before the cock crowed twice, took his sword and cut off the ear of the servant Malcus of the High Priest. It was then that Jesus restrained Peter, and voluntarily faced his accusers at the trial before the Sanhedrin.

https://biblehub.com/john/18-10.htm

Peter was not tried by the Sanhedrin, because our Savior healed Malcus’ ear.

While the Disciples of Christ and those that served the Sanhedrin were both armed with swords, Christ voluntarily yielded to the laws of man.

He was hung on a cross between two thieves, with his own mother watching, and Mary Magdalene as well.

There was a Centurion at the Foot of the Cross, which implies there were a hundred Roman soldiers Pilate had dispatched, all armed with a Roman short sword, with armor and superior training than the little band of Christians armed only with the common swords allowed the people. Those soldiers would have made short work of the first Christians, had they defied the law.

Every Christian boy for two thousand years must know every bit of that is true, or else they won’t let him be baptized into the Christian Church. I was eight, when I was baptized.

And we are not allowed to read it, or quote scripture, we must know it and believe it is absolutely true, when we face our elders to qualify for baptism.

That’s why for two thousand years, you’ll have to get up very early in the morning to get ahead of a good Campbellite lawyer, about quoting false sources. We are taught from our cradles to seek only truth.

If Jesus walked America today, his disciples would be armed with AR-15s, the most common new centerfire rifle in America.

The military would have M-16s and the like.

And Christians would always submit to lawful authority, before using their guns.

Because the first armed Christians walked our Lord up Calvary’s hill and stood there, and peacefully submitted to the law:

WALKING MY LORD UP CALVARY’S HILL

Rhonda Vincent version



There is never any need to lie about our gun rights.

We’ve had the right to arms since Christ was crucified.

The rule of law, is most important.



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