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 Post subject: Cutting your eyes
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 7:42 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:54 am
Posts: 616
Will, after reading today's NSCA Target Tactics I'm wondering if you cut your eyes back to where you first see the bird or if you prefer to move your head back so your nose is pointing directly at where you first see it? Thanks!




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 Post subject: Re: Cutting your eyes
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 3:09 pm 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 747
Location: Sharon, SC USA
I want to see the bird as early as possible( except when the trap is close, and behind me). I use my peripheral vision first, if that is not enough, I rotate my eyeballs....if that isn't enough, I turn my head.

I would MUCH rather rotate my eyes than move my head, especially on fast birds.

Some variations may be necessary if the shooter has bad vision, and is wearing prescription glasses. In that case, the shooter will have very limited vision that is not right front of their lenses, so they will need to rotate their heads more.....

Apparently some other instructors teach different things....YMMV.

Best,

Will

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Will Fennell
www.fennellshootingschool.com


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 Post subject: Re: Cutting your eyes
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 5:35 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:04 am
Posts: 33
Hey Will,

I like how you said "Rotate the eyeballs." I use the term "Rotate to Locate" with my students, ha, ha.... Actually I just came up with that. You can use it. It has been Trademarked by Team Rad....Just sayin'. Miss you buddy..

Nature Boy


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 Post subject: Re: Cutting your eyes
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 5:49 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:54 am
Posts: 616
Will, yesterday I tried using only my peripheral vision and moving my head only if necessary. Sounds like a subtle change from moving my nose directly to the focal point but turned out to be significant. Keeping the gun and my head in the same plane throughout the swing may become a game changer for me. Should take a bit of time, but not too long, to feel natural. Thanks!

Here's a related question. As a maintained lead shooter I start my gun quite close to the break point, about 1/3 to 1/2 of the way back, on most birds. I find anything closer means it's a fight to not get jammed by the bird. Reading the NSCA instructor's manual it recommends 1/3 back for quartering birds and 2/3 back for crossers. Wondering what your general approach to hold points is in order to maximize use of peripheral vision?


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 Post subject: Re: Cutting your eyes
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 6:31 am 
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Location: Athens,TX.
WOW you're actually trying/listening to someone other than your usual go to be all guru :shock: :lol: Imagine that different things help folks in different ways. Who would have thunk it :)

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 Post subject: Re: Cutting your eyes
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 8:32 am 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 747
Location: Sharon, SC USA
JS,
My rule of thumb( there are always situations variations) is 1/2 way back from the kill zone to where I first see the flash of the clay on most targets. On fast quartering birds, only about a 1/3 of the way back from the kill zone. This is for starting dismounted, and my core technique is pull away. This is set up to give adequate time to match the speed of the bird to get visually connected, and then time to pull away across the kill zone.

YMMV.

Best,

Will

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Will Fennell
www.fennellshootingschool.com


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 Post subject: Re: Cutting your eyes
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 8:54 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:54 am
Posts: 616
Thanks Will. Very helpful and assures me I'm in the ballpark and not getting too far from a reasonable approach.

In my case I may to have hold just a small distance further back from the kill zone than I'm used to in order to use my peripheral vision on crossing birds while minimizing head movement. My limited time with this new-to-me approach has so far indicated that keeping my head better aligned with the gun throughout the shot will be very positive. I noticed that getting jammed by the bird was no longer much of an issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Cutting your eyes
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 9:47 am 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 747
Location: Sharon, SC USA
That is why you have to work out somethings for yourself! Good man.....carry on....

Best,
Will

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Will Fennell
www.fennellshootingschool.com


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 Post subject: Re: Cutting your eyes
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 5:43 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:07 pm
Posts: 2298
Will, with reference to the Make a Break shoot off at the NE Regional between Seay & Kemeter. Both shooters on the quartering out targets, in which case, were located behind the stand, both left to right and right to left, the shooter's were full mount and didn't move their head, but cut their eyes. To do this of course, you must know the exact line and hold on it. 99 % of their shots were nothing but smoke and the targets were not close.

Both of these kids are still in college but for us more "seasoned" shooters, would you recommend cutting your eyes just back to the trap where you can see the target come off the plate in your peripheral? Or, would you recommend a very short draw and turn your head? Both of these presentations had some speed on them and Seay was shooting extra full and extra full.




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