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 Post subject: Re: Who likes Light Modified?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:58 am 
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Location: Mid-Missouri
SuperXOne wrote:

When I wrote this eight years ago, I went on to discover, thanks to Rod Gates of Jordan, Missouri, that if you can find an excellent gunsmith to hand ream a 12 gauge choke down to about 12-3 thousands of constriction,,,,

It’s even better than 15 thousands.

The reason is, the 21-35 yard pattern is more open, and it makes a better bird and skeet gun, and the patterns from 35-60 yards remain about the same.



How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

I've shot with you enough times to know that a few thousands here or there makes no difference. Certainly not for you and probably even for me. When I miss, no amount of constriction, or lack thereof, would have mattered.




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 Post subject: Re: Who likes Light Modified?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:11 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:57 pm
Posts: 221
Bladeswitcher wrote:
SuperXOne wrote:

When I wrote this eight years ago, I went on to discover, thanks to Rod Gates of Jordan, Missouri, that if you can find an excellent gunsmith to hand ream a 12 gauge choke down to about 12-3 thousands of constriction,,,,

It’s even better than 15 thousands.

The reason is, the 21-35 yard pattern is more open, and it makes a better bird and skeet gun, and the patterns from 35-60 yards remain about the same.



How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

I've shot with you enough times to know that a few thousands here or there makes no difference. Certainly not for you and probably even for me. When I miss, no amount of constriction, or lack thereof, would have mattered.


That’s exactly right and we’ll said. It’s a shotgun, not a rifle. 1-3 thou on any choke with any load isn’t worth thinking about, much less doing anything about.


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 Post subject: Re: Who likes Light Modified?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:47 pm 
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Flyingtargets! wrote:
Bladeswitcher wrote:
SuperXOne wrote:

When I wrote this eight years ago, I went on to discover, thanks to Rod Gates of Jordan, Missouri, that if you can find an excellent gunsmith to hand ream a 12 gauge choke down to about 12-3 thousands of constriction,,,,

It’s even better than 15 thousands.

The reason is, the 21-35 yard pattern is more open, and it makes a better bird and skeet gun, and the patterns from 35-60 yards remain about the same.



How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

I've shot with you enough times to know that a few thousands here or there makes no difference. Certainly not for you and probably even for me. When I miss, no amount of constriction, or lack thereof, would have mattered.


That’s exactly right and we’ll said. It’s a shotgun, not a rifle. 1-3 thou on any choke with any load isn’t worth thinking about, much less doing anything about.


The typical improved cylinder choke is ten thousands. I leave those alone.

A few old Winchester Modified chokes were 12-3 thousands, and those I consider perfect.

But any other old smokepole I’ve measured if it’s a modified it’s about twenty thousands and of full it’s forty thousands, and both too tight to be good 21 yard skeet shooters.

All the skeet targets cross a stake 21 yards from the stations.

So if you are going to have an old fixed choke shotgun reamed out, order it reamed 12-3 thousands constriction.

If a gun has choke tubes, use any tube you like best for skeet.

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 Post subject: Re: Who likes Light Modified?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:03 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:57 pm
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Measuring is one part, checking performance with a given load completes the equation for me anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Who likes Light Modified?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:09 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
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Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
"Measuring is one part, checking performance with a given load completes the equation for me anyway."

Bingo, you got it! The designation of a choke is generally based on a standard of what it's restriction USUALLY produces in terms of pattern percentages in a 30" circle at 40 yds.. That is good enough for government work most of the time. Should knowing what choke you are really shooting within a 1/2 degree of choke really matters to your shooting you have to pattern test it to find out what you are really getting. Any change in any variable in any load has potential to change patterns. Since most of us don't know exactly how far our potential target will be, the pattern we think we need is just a guess. Sometimes we are lucky, sometimes not but hopefully it will be close enough to work in the majority of cases.


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 Post subject: Re: Who likes Light Modified?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:43 pm 
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Flyingtargets! wrote:
Measuring is one part, checking performance with a given load completes the equation for me anyway.


The trouble is that loads change with each shell, and box of shells. It’s a shotgun that tosses hundreds and hundred of pellets.

Artisans like Rod Gates of Jordan must select one constriction for custom 12 gauge muzzleloaders.

Gates puts in 12-3 thousands for a Gates Choke.

Although he freely admits it’s just a tight improved cylinder.

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 Post subject: Re: Who likes Light Modified?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:59 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:57 pm
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‘Selecting’ a choke for a ‘custom’ shotgun without knowing the loads is virtually the opposite of artisan.


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 Post subject: Re: Who likes Light Modified?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:11 pm 
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If ten thousands is .010" and 15 thousands is .015", what the heck is 12-3 thousands?


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 Post subject: Re: Who likes Light Modified?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:57 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:23 pm
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Location: Upper Midwest
lossking wrote:
If ten thousands is .010" and 15 thousands is .015", what the heck is 12-3 thousands?


You, me and everyone else would like to know!
Jeff


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 Post subject: Re: Who likes Light Modified?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:01 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:36 pm
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Location: Northeast Ohio
I'm thinking he means .012 to .013

I'm pretty sure I remember SuperX discussing this once before and defining the "IC Plus" choke as around .0125


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 Post subject: Re: Who likes Light Modified?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:39 pm 
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Location: Michigan
Grouse Gunner wrote:
I'm thinking he means .012 to .013

I'm pretty sure I remember SuperX discussing this once before and defining the "IC Plus" choke as around .0125


I also remember that, tried to find it but I got double vision and a headache searching all his post :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Who likes Light Modified?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:45 pm 
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lossking wrote:
If ten thousands is .010" and 15 thousands is .015", what the heck is 12-3 thousands?


12/3 thousands = .0125 +/- .0005.

The Arkansawyer pronunciation is thousand ese

High toned city fellers call it thousandths.

In Jordan, it’s thousands.

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 Post subject: Re: Who likes Light Modified?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:52 pm 
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In other words 12 to 13 thousandths.

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 Post subject: Re: Who likes Light Modified?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:49 pm 
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DE wrote:
In other words 12 to 13 thousandths.


Right real near approximately so.

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 Post subject: Re: Who likes Light Modified?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:02 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:03 pm
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I agree that a few thousandths of choke makes almost no difference but if I acquire a really tightly choked gun for upland use (like mod and full) I prefer to have those chokes opened to something closer to skeet and light mod (around .006 and .015). Just my preference.

Maybe 15 years ago at the original Shotgun Days event at Orvis Sandanona a British shooting instructor had a bunch of us shooting a skeet middle of field crossing target (station 4) at ever increasing distances, with skeet chokes in our guns. His point was don't obsess about the choke in your gun. Well once we stopped thinking about it and just began pulling further ahead of the target, we were all breaking that crosser out to 40 yards or even a bit more with skeet chokes. I have to say that the exercise opened my eyes (and my mind) a bit. Would I recommend it for trap type targets -- no, probably not. But you might be surprised how well more "open" chokes can deliver an adequate pattern if you've never tried it.

I know more than a few good sporting clays shooters that shoot IC and LM in their OUs and just leave them in for the whole round.


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 Post subject: Re: Who likes Light Modified?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:45 am 
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simslax wrote:
I agree that a few thousandths of choke makes almost no difference but if I acquire a really tightly choked gun for upland use (like mod and full) I prefer to have those chokes opened to something closer to skeet and light mod (around .006 and .015). Just my preference.

Maybe 15 years ago at the original Shotgun Days event at Orvis Sandanona a British shooting instructor had a bunch of us shooting a skeet middle of field crossing target (station 4) at ever increasing distances, with skeet chokes in our guns. His point was don't obsess about the choke in your gun. Well once we stopped thinking about it and just began pulling further ahead of the target, we were all breaking that crosser out to 40 yards or even a bit more with skeet chokes. I have to say that the exercise opened my eyes (and my mind) a bit. Would I recommend it for trap type targets -- no, probably not. But you might be surprised how well more "open" chokes can deliver an adequate pattern if you've never tried it.

I know more than a few good sporting clays shooters that shoot IC and LM in their OUs and just leave them in for the whole round.


As my wife and me get ever closer to our second Pfizer shot and 95% immunity, I get to thinking about returning to Jordan more, every day.

Sometimes Rod Gates likes to call himself the “Ehell See Smith Man” and I know he’s still got that transistor radio tuned to the local Warsaw station, and solid golf country music is playing there this morning.

I’ve commissioned Gates to take my .410 Spanish double choked full and fuller and put Gates chokes in both barrels and regulate them to shoot dead center all together, as best he can.

He’s had that gun almost a year and a half, and six months ago he said he’d found special reamers for it.

I’ve got a wonderful old long barreled 32” O grade LC Smith from 1907, that’s choked forty thousands in both barrels, every time I get out my digital calipers and check those Armory Steel barrels.

Some long dead man in Fulton New York in 1907 patterned both those barrels, and by coincidence I suppose he decided exactly .690 was just perfect.

I might take that old smokepole to Jordan along with my latest 2012 Olympus PL-5 and M. Zuiko f1.8 and take me some pretty pictures of Gates at his labors, for his scrapbook and mine, printed on my new Canon TR-4520 and saved on the cloud to Shutterfly.

Or I might take an old 30” Ithaca M37 Roto Forged barrel instead, choked .695 about 1974 in Ithaca New York.

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 Post subject: Re: Who likes Light Modified?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:17 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:57 pm
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I might have a sandwich later;-)




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