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 Post subject: Fair Shotguns
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:11 am 
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I'm in the market for a new sporting 12 ga over under shotgun. In my searches I have ran across Fair Shotguns (aka I. Rizzini). From their website they appear to be a well built gun, but I can not find any real world reviews. I have contacted the importer here in the states and he informed me that the guns carry a two year warranty and getting replacement parts for repairs can be easily obtained. With that being said, is there anyone out there that has shot or owns one of these over unders and what is your thoughts on them. I like to shoot different guns than most other shooters, but I know it's hard for many people to suggest anything other than a browning or a beretta when discussing guns in the $2k range. Thanks in advance.




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 Post subject: Re: Fair Shotguns
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:26 am 
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I would look for a used CG, transfer the registration and have a good gun with a lifetime warranty.


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 Post subject: Re: Fair Shotguns
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:20 pm 
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Location: Indian Head Country Wisconsin
They are considered to generally be a notch lower than B Rizzini for quality. The BR110 is getting good reviews but not a dedicated clays gun. It’s for the field.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=458517
No complaints with my FAIR Verona. I shoot it better than my 525 sporting which got sold after I picked up the NIB Verona. For serious high volume clay work may not be the best choice. For a weekly sporting clays league with winters off suits me just fine. I’m out with the field Guns now anyway and Sporting is a distant memory until next spring.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=453027


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 Post subject: Re: Fair Shotguns
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:15 pm 
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Location: Georgetown, TX
Texas Yankee wrote:
I would look for a used CG, transfer the registration and have a good gun with a lifetime warranty.


If $2,000.00 is the top of the budget, I'm not sure a C.G. can be had for that. I think he would be lucky to get one at $3,000.00. However, I give you no argument about the quality of the C.G. I love mine!

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 Post subject: Re: Fair Shotguns
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:22 pm 
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1CrackedFN wrote:
I'm in the market for a new sporting 12 ga over under shotgun. In my searches I have ran across Fair Shotguns (aka I. Rizzini). From their website they appear to be a well built gun, but I can not find any real world reviews. I have contacted the importer here in the states and he informed me that the guns carry a two year warranty and getting replacement parts for repairs can be easily obtained.


As far as I know, the "importer" is http://www.italianfirearmsgroup.com/fair down in Texas. Their website gives no specifications, says nothing about warranty, FAIR has very few stocking dealers (a few in Texas) and no parts are readily available through common channels.

FAIR itself has made some decent field shotguns, see the Savage Milano.
Image

I have no experience with the "clays guns" currently made.

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 Post subject: Re: Fair Shotguns
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:43 pm 
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Thanks for the information so far. It seems that they were in the game a while back and are trying to fan the flames once again. I'm not one to buy something in the blind for that kind of money, but if I do run across any more information or by some stroke of luck get to handle them I will report back. Until then the search continues.


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 Post subject: Re: Fair Shotguns
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:43 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:26 pm
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Location: SLC, Utah
I have no experience with the sporting models, but recently purchased a FAIR Iside 16ga sxs with double triggers, ejectors and 30 inch barrels. It is well balanced, has crisp triggers, shoots to point of aim, the ejectors are perfectly timed and the barrels are well regulated. Fit/finish is good (not great). The stamped engraving and checkering are meh. I have no real complaints and it will be a keeper.


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 Post subject: Re: Fair Shotguns
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:54 pm 
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The Verona models had a good reputation as a lot of gun for the money, mostly hunting guns. FAIR's importer went belly-up, and that was that.

Later, it was the Savage Milano and they were good guns for the money. I spent quality time with a few of them. Savage actually did okay with them, but not "okay enough" to keep them in the line.

There was also the Cortona: see viewtopic.php?t=96415 .

I'd put them in the same category as the basic Fausti guns, although many of the Fausti's are a bit better finished.

They have had their moments, but they have yet to gain much traction in the U.S. market, and never have caught on as far as competition guns.

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 Post subject: Re: Fair Shotguns
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:58 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:38 pm
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Location: ohio
I have used my Verona from shooting doubles trap to hunting pheasants.I have also used it for Dove hunting,have never had a misfire.It has probably more than 5000 shells thru it.The only thing I have done is change the recoil pad.


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 Post subject: Re: Fair Shotguns
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:55 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:34 pm
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Look at the B Rizzini Vertex. You can get one for less than $2,000. Its an incredibly well made gun at that price point. Much better value than a comparable browning that is for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Fair Shotguns
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 11:01 am 
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Just an FYI and you can all take it for what it's worth.....i too have looked at the F.A.I.R. Carrera One but was a bit leery due to the lack of available information, namely, "warranty". So, this morning I called IGF at the HQ's in Amarillo, TX during their business hours. And what do you suppose I got.......a recording....said to leave a message. Now, what type of response do we think we'll receive if we should need assistance or, heaven forbid, warranty work! No thanks......i wouldn't touch this gun company with a 10' pole


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 Post subject: Re: Fair Shotguns
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 9:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:24 am
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Location: SWVA
This suspicion of F.A.I.R. is a U.S.-specific issue (self-inflicted by a string of marketing blunders here, for sure). F.A.I.R. is the #1 manufacturer of side-by-shotguns in Italy, and the #2 manufacturer of over/unders (ahead of Fabarm/Guerini, Benelli, Perazzi, Fausti, Zoli, B. Rizzini, etc). And they aren't new at this; they've been at it for almost 50 years.

https://www.chuckhawks.com/fair_iside_gold.html

I think F.A.I.R. appeals to a certain type of American O/U buyer, that identifies their required features and budget foremost. I wanted an adjustable comb and elevated rib, and Beretta doesn't offer that combination for under $5k (not without forfeiting your wood warranty with an aftermarket stock modification, at least). Browning makes adj. comb+elevated rib a bit more accessible at $2.3kish, but you have to accept the huge/ancient Citori action combined with NO WARRANTY AT ALL. Browning might fix something for you, but maybe not? And if they do, there are multiple posts on here about it going back to Japan for the better part of a year for the repair.

I bought a F.A.I.R. Carrera One HR (high rib) for $1600 online, and it handles/feels similar to a 686 to me (but with those two extra features I couldn't get in a new 686). That price for those features can't even be beaten by Turkish guns like the CZ All-American, which is $600 more expensive. There are literally no other options (new or used) for this feature set at $1600 or less.

Here's my thread on it:
https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=488572

Warranty was 3 years after registration on the F.A.I.R. website. I'm reasonably confident I can source whatever parts I need directly from F.A.I.R. (to my eyes, they haven't changed their O/U action design for over a decade, and Europe is awash in these guns), but the new distributor in TX is probably a safe bet for now (regardless of how often they answer the phone).

It's not like Beretta or Browning have a good reputation for after-sales support in the U.S., so the bar is not high anyway. All B&B really have is a comfort level among local independent gunsmiths; but I don't mind shipping my gun for repairs. I was willing to 'gamble' on an Italian gunmaking family that has been doing this for generations to get the features+value proposition I was after, and I expect this latest attempt by F.A.I.R. in the U.S. market will go better than the last one (which could not have been timed/executed worse).

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SxS-Stoeger Coach Gun 20ga
Auto-Winchester 1400 MKII
Pump-Mossberg 590A1 18.5"


Last edited by the_phew on Tue May 07, 2019 7:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Fair Shotguns
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 9:21 pm 
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Can't speak directly to sporting models.
What I do know from having had four of 'em: They know how to scale a 16 gauge. They can build a stunning gun. Quality control is not horrid, but it's not that of the Big Bs or even B.Riz.
At a good price, I'd grab a field model just about any day. For a sporting model, I'd be tempted to seek something with more product support in the U.S.
I do still hunt a Fair LX900 in 16. My all-time favorite pheasant gun, and I've got a Berretta Ultralight in 12 in the safe.
If you're really looking at 'em, though, Wholesale Hunter site seems to have quite a few in stock.

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 Post subject: Re: Fair Shotguns
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 5:55 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:51 pm
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Location: Houston, TX USA
the_phew wrote:
This suspicion of F.A.I.R. is a U.S.-specific issue (self-inflicted by a string of marketing blunders here, for sure). F.A.I.R. is the #1 manufacturer of side-by-shotguns in Italy, and the #2 manufacturer of over/unders (ahead of Fabarm/Guerini, Benelli, Parazzi, Fausti, Zoli, B. Rizzini, etc). And they aren't new at this; they've been at it for almost 50 years.

https://www.chuckhawks.com/fair_iside_gold.html

I think F.A.I.R. appeals to a certain type of American O/U buyer, that identifies their required features and budget foremost. I wanted an adjustable comb and elevated rib, and Beretta doesn't offer that combination for under $5k (not without forfeiting your wood warranty with an aftermarket stock modification, at least). Browning makes adj. comb+elevated rib a bit more accessible at $2.3kish, but you have to accept the huge/ancient Citori action combined with NO WARRANTY AT ALL. Browning might fix something for you, but maybe not? And if they do, there are multiple posts on here about it going back to Japan for the better part of a year for the repair.

I bought a F.A.I.R. Carrera One HR (high rib) for $1600 online, and it handles/feels similarly to a 686 to me (but with those two extra features I couldn't get in a new 686). That price for those features can't even be beaten by Turkish guns like the CZ All-American, which is $600 more expensive. There are literally no other options (new or used) for this feature set at $1600 or less.

Here's my thread on it:
https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=488572

Warranty was 3 years after registration on the F.A.I.R. website. I'm reasonably confident I can source whatever parts I need directly from F.A.I.R. (to my eyes, they haven't changed their O/U action design for over a decade, and Europe is awash in these guns), but the new distributor in TX is probably a safe bet for now (regardless of how often they answer the phone).

It's not like Beretta or Browning have a good reputation for after-sales support in the U.S., so the bar is not high anyway. All B&B really have is a comfort level among local independent gunsmiths; but I don't mind shipping my gun for repairs. I was willing to 'gamble' on an Italian gunmaking family that has been doing this for generations to get the features+value proposition I was after, and I expect this latest attempt by F.A.I.R. in the U.S. market will go better than the last one (which could not have been timed/executed worse).

What you have described is a very rational approach to an often emotional purchase. I commend you on the common sense displayed. Enjoy your gun.

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 Post subject: Re: Fair Shotguns
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 7:25 am 
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I think they are FAIR!

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 Post subject: Re: Fair Shotguns
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 7:45 am 
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rpenmanparker wrote:
What you have described is a very rational approach to an often emotional purchase. I commend you on the common sense displayed. Enjoy your gun.


Thanks. I should also point out that Zoli and Fabarm/Guerini were in the same boat as F.A.I.R. not too long ago; popular in Europe but no marketing/support in the U.S. Just like F.A.I.R., they floundered about here letting other brands rebadge their guns to try to eek out a corner of the U.S. market, with the same disastrous results.

Then Zoli and Guerini dumped a pile of $ marketing in the U.S., and now we consider them to be reputable mid-high end shotguns. Same actions being manufactured in the same Brescia workshops as before (a stone's throw from F.A.I.R.'s workshop, with probably the same equipment, processes, parts designs, etc). I've read all these Brescia gunmakers even share employees/resources and do contract work for each other as the market ebbs and flows. I don't buy into marketing hype; history has taught us that Brescia O/Us are a known quantity, regardless of what name is engraved on the barrel. F.A.I.R. even seems to be making a more serious push on the marketing front in the U.S., so I wouldn't be surprised to see them become more mainstream very soon.

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 Post subject: Re: Fair Shotguns
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 8:32 am 
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I was joking about thinking they are FAIR. But, when I say one listed on Gun Broker as a FAIR Rizzini Islide, I contacted John Boyd and asked him for more pictures since he listed the gun as FAIR, which I initially took to mean its condition. It was New In The Box and I bought it. I like it though the wood is nothing great. It is a SxS and in 16 gauge tricked out as I wanted itl

Bob

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 Post subject: Re: Fair Shotguns
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 4:03 pm 
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While I certainly would not bill myself as an expert on the Brescia makers, I don't think I'd phrase the Caesar Guerini story quite the same way.
I'd actually suggest their vision was on the spot and the rapidity of their success (in both Europe and the US) has been remarkable.
Consider that the company was founded in late 2000 and didn't open its own factory until 2007.
As I understand it, CG obtained half of Fabarm (a much older company) in about 2010 and completed that acquisition in 2014.
Again: No shotgun expert and no business expert, but it has seemed to me that if one charted CG's growth, that line would be darn near vertical.
Also -- and a bit of a guess on my part -- I'd attribute a rather large chunk of their US success to the decision to hire (or partner with?) Wes Lang to handle the US operations.
IMO, what CG has done in the USA that I. Rizzini and B. Rizzini (their uncles, if the oft-told tales are accurate) have not done: Established a true, steady and (so far) lasting US presence and a reputation for outstanding customer service.
Again, limited knowledge on my part. Randy Wakemen would likely know quite a bit more.

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 Post subject: Re: Fair Shotguns
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 5:15 pm 
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MGF wrote:
While I certainly would not bill myself as an expert on the Brescia makers, I don't think I'd phrase the Caesar Guerini story quite the same way.
I'd actually suggest their vision was on the spot and the rapidity of their success (in both Europe and the US) has been remarkable.
Consider that the company was founded in late 2000 and didn't open its own factory until 2007.
As I understand it, CG obtained half of Fabarm (a much older company) in about 2010 and completed that acquisition in 2014.
Again: No shotgun expert and no business expert, but it has seemed to me that if one charted CG's growth, that line would be darn near vertical.
Also -- and a bit of a guess on my part -- I'd attribute a rather large chunk of their US success to the decision to hire (or partner with?) Wes Lang to handle the US operations.
IMO, what CG has done in the USA that I. Rizzini and B. Rizzini (their uncles, if the oft-told tales are accurate) have not done: Established a true, steady and (so far) lasting US presence and a reputation for outstanding customer service.
Again, limited knowledge on my part. Randy Wakemen would likely know quite a bit more.

And don’t forget how much the American public likes to pay stupid high prices. They consider it a sure sign of quality. We all know you get EXACTLY what you pay for. And the constant advertising at the top of this forum isn’t hurting either.

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 Post subject: Re: Fair Shotguns
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 5:33 pm 
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rpenmanparker wrote:
MGF wrote:
While I certainly would not bill myself as an expert on the Brescia makers, I don't think I'd phrase the Caesar Guerini story quite the same way.
I'd actually suggest their vision was on the spot and the rapidity of their success (in both Europe and the US) has been remarkable.
Consider that the company was founded in late 2000 and didn't open its own factory until 2007.
As I understand it, CG obtained half of Fabarm (a much older company) in about 2010 and completed that acquisition in 2014.
Again: No shotgun expert and no business expert, but it has seemed to me that if one charted CG's growth, that line would be darn near vertical.
Also -- and a bit of a guess on my part -- I'd attribute a rather large chunk of their US success to the decision to hire (or partner with?) Wes Lang to handle the US operations.
IMO, what CG has done in the USA that I. Rizzini and B. Rizzini (their uncles, if the oft-told tales are accurate) have not done: Established a true, steady and (so far) lasting US presence and a reputation for outstanding customer service.
Again, limited knowledge on my part. Randy Wakemen would likely know quite a bit more.

And don’t forget how much the American public likes to pay stupid high prices. They consider it a sure sign of quality. We all know you get EXACTLY what you pay for. And the constant advertising at the top of this forum isn’t hurting either.


Have never bought a CG. Shot a few, thrown a bunch to my shoulder ... but never had the spare coin to write a check for one.
That said, I would not call them badly priced for what you get.
Dollar for dollar, feature for feature I'd call them as good as or a better value than comparably priced Big Bs, of which I have had some and do still have a few in the safe.

I have had four guns made by I. Riz (FAIR) and two made by B. Riz (and still have one of each). But, gotta say, I actually lucked into those and got good guns at distressed prices because they failed or struggled in their importer/marketing efforts.
I do generally like CGs guns and I'd say I admire them as a company for smarts, good product and customer service. Some of the Italian and American makers could stand to learn or relearn a bit from them, IMO.



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