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 Post subject: Re: Retay Masai Mara thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:38 pm 
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RandyWakeman wrote:
DesertMuleDeer wrote:
The Monte and Retay are very similar.


Not at all. The Montefeltro is the cheaper to make 1 piece receiver with the old Benelli Click action.

The Retay Masai Mara is a two piece receiver, quicker to take down, with metal trigger guard and trigger group which is also quick release with the push of a button, and has the "Inertia Plus action"-- meaning no Benelli click.



Other than being inertia guns, there is very little in common between the old Montefeltro and the Masai Mara.




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 Post subject: Re: Retay Masai Mara thoughts
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:26 am 
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DesertMuleDeer wrote:
The gun functions OK. It looks and balances almost exactly like a Montefeltro, including grade of wood (don't be sold on the highly figured stocks in Gunbroker pictures--mine arrived with a very plain piece). The magazine does not function nearly as well as a Benelli. I can't load it without looking down without getting shells cockeyed in the magazine, which is a problem for me when chasing blue quail or pheasant. The Benelli is better sorted and for the same price, I should have bought a Montefeltro in hindsight.


What does that mean?


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 Post subject: Re: Retay Masai Mara thoughts
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:53 am 
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Based on what I’ve seen, with regard to innovation, price, and apparent quality, I’d have no reservations about buying a Masai Mara if I had the money. In fact, it would be near the top of my list. Turkey is putting out some excellent shotguns right now, and this looks to be the cream of the crop.

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 Post subject: Re: Retay Masai Mara thoughts
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:24 am 
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DesertMuleDeer wrote:
The gun functions OK. It looks and balances almost exactly like a Montefeltro, including grade of wood (don't be sold on the highly figured stocks in Gunbroker pictures--mine arrived with a very plain piece). The magazine does not function nearly as well as a Benelli. I can't load it without looking down without getting shells cockeyed in the magazine, which is a problem for me when chasing blue quail or pheasant. The Benelli is better sorted and for the same price, I should have bought a Montefeltro in hindsight.


Your comments don't make sense. It is common knowledge that many sellers use manufacturer's graphics. If they represented an image to be the actual gun at auction, but it isn't that gun, you bought from the wrong seller... and, back it goes. It is pathetically easy to e-mail a picture of the item, all you have to do is ask. Further, most sellers have a non-firing inspection period, so if the wood is not up to your expectations, back it goes.

I have no idea how to get a shotshell "cockeyed" in a tubular magazine. Stiff loading can be an issue, hence the "Benelli Thumb" to go with the Benelli Click.

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 Post subject: Re: Retay Masai Mara thoughts
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:50 am 
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RandyWakeman wrote:
DesertMuleDeer wrote:
The gun functions OK. It looks and balances almost exactly like a Montefeltro, including grade of wood (don't be sold on the highly figured stocks in Gunbroker pictures--mine arrived with a very plain piece). The magazine does not function nearly as well as a Benelli. I can't load it without looking down without getting shells cockeyed in the magazine, which is a problem for me when chasing blue quail or pheasant. The Benelli is better sorted and for the same price, I should have bought a Montefeltro in hindsight.


Your comments don't make sense. It is common knowledge that many sellers use manufacturer's graphics. If they represented an image to be the actual gun at auction, but it isn't that gun, you bought from the wrong seller... and, back it goes. It is pathetically easy to e-mail a picture of the item, all you have to do is ask. Further, most sellers have a non-firing inspection period, so if the wood is not up to your expectations, back it goes.

I have no idea how to get a shotshell "cockeyed" in a tubular magazine. Stiff loading can be an issue, hence the "Benelli Thumb" to go with the Benelli Click.


Sometimes wood on guns is luck of the draw, if you`re ordering over the internet especially. In the case of my L4S IH, I was pleasantly surprised. The wood had more " character " than I expected that it would for a base model gun.

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 Post subject: Re: Retay Masai Mara thoughts
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:25 pm 
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Did anyone make couple of thousands of shots out of this gun so far?
I've seen many turkish guns in Eastern Europe and general statistics is rather disappointing in this area. There is not many people out there who can shell out over $500 for a shotgun, given their average monthly salary is under $400. Saying that, they tend to buy Baikals and also cheap Turkish guns a lot. So the general statistics is that most Turkish semi-autos start giving up as early as after 700...900 shots. Imagine, the metals they use to build those guns are cheap and crappy... Please note, steel shot is not a requirement there, so 99% of time people shoot 2-3/4 and 3" lead shots and maybe some slugs. So at the end most of turkish shotgun ex-owners go back to the less pretty but proven reliable Baikals. Those who manage to save up to $1000 try to find old Berettas (a390, etc), Benelli, Breda, and some other well known old brands on the used gun market.
Said the above, it a risky venture to throw $1000+ not having enough user feedback data about the shotgun in question.


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 Post subject: Re: Retay Masai Mara thoughts
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:16 pm 
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I recently had the chance to do a very direct side by side comparison of balance and appearance on the Benelli Montefeltro and right below it on the rack was a Retay Masai Mara. Both were 12 gauge and priced about the same.
I have to say the Retay was one very nice looking package and the wood figure was better in appearance to the Benelli. If you like slim forends you would really like the Retay's as it was almost too slender for my tastes!

The Retay fit me better, but that does not mean anything as that could be reversed with a different shooter. The Retay's trigger assembly release button feature is really slick, and I can see where that might be a real advantage in a nasty weather hunting environment. I had never handled either model extensively as my previous experience was with a Benelli M2. The Montefeltro is a different feeling gun to that one. I am not an inertia fan due to being a complete recoil wuss, but if I was in the market for one; I would certainly give the Retay a real serious look. It is a very nicely presented shotgun.


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 Post subject: Re: Retay Masai Mara thoughts
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:32 am 
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I'm kinda impressed with silky smooth feeling of Benelli action of my 20ga Monte. So far I've made around 500..600 shots out of it using 3/4 to 1oz loads including a dozen of shots done recently at 23F cold. Not a single hick up. Given this kind of reliability and the well engineered mechanics which makes sure to keep the shell locked until the shot charge leaves barrel which ensures best performance possible for semi-auto (100% of gas energy works to propel the shot, nothing else) and no need to clean the gun as often as you do the gas driven ones, I start thinking to give a try to a 12ga Benelli.
And suddenly there is a dark horse from turkish gun makers which claims to beat Benelli :D :D


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 Post subject: Re: Retay Masai Mara thoughts
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:13 pm 
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i3rider wrote:
I'm kinda impressed with silky smooth feeling of Benelli action of my 20ga Monte. So far I've made around 500..600 shots out of it using 3/4 to 1oz loads including a dozen of shots done recently at 23F cold. Not a single hick up. Given this kind of reliability and the well engineered mechanics which makes sure to keep the shell locked until the shot charge leaves barrel which ensures best performance possible for semi-auto (100% of gas energy works to propel the shot, nothing else) and no need to clean the gun as often as you do the gas driven ones, I start thinking to give a try to a 12ga Benelli.
And suddenly there is a dark horse from turkish gun makers which claims to beat Benelli :D :D


So, are you saying that this gives inertia guns some kind of advantage over gas guns?


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 Post subject: Re: Retay Masai Mara thoughts
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:38 pm 
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lossking wrote:
i3rider wrote:
I'm kinda impressed with silky smooth feeling of Benelli action of my 20ga Monte. So far I've made around 500..600 shots out of it using 3/4 to 1oz loads including a dozen of shots done recently at 23F cold. Not a single hick up. Given this kind of reliability and the well engineered mechanics which makes sure to keep the shell locked until the shot charge leaves barrel which ensures best performance possible for semi-auto (100% of gas energy works to propel the shot, nothing else) and no need to clean the gun as often as you do the gas driven ones, I start thinking to give a try to a 12ga Benelli.
And suddenly there is a dark horse from turkish gun makers which claims to beat Benelli :D :D


So, are you saying that this gives inertia guns some kind of advantage over gas guns?


Yes, I do think so.
Just like break barrel or pump, the inertia shotgun doesn't tap away any gas from the barrel. The rotating bolt head technology ensures to keep the chamber locked until the shot charge leaves gun barrel.

While this little advantage might be non-critical for clay shooting and not so important for hunting over decoys or any other kind of live targets below 40yds range. But for the longer shooting distances 40+ yds, pass shooting, etc I want to squeeze out every last bit of the shot energy.
And I've been reading that the gas-operated shotgun takes about 10% of total gas energy to move the action. So imagine, when you have a gas gun and it is a backbore also - your shotgun loses about 20..25% of the shot energy.
Btw, here I also explain why I dismiss the backbored shotguns from my list, including some math and numbers: https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto ... 2&t=506894


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 Post subject: Re: Retay Masai Mara thoughts
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:56 pm 
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There are other guns besides the inertia guns that have the rotating bolt lock up. The V3 has that system and it is gas operated. IMO you are making a great deal out of something that in practice has no discernible effect. Gas guns have been used successfully for at least 67 years, and I don't think that would be possible if they exhibited some inherent weakness due to gases being used to operate the action.

Standard industry allowed variations in shell velocity would exhibit a greater impact than the tiny bit of gas that is used to operate any gas auto.


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 Post subject: Re: Retay Masai Mara thoughts
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:58 pm 
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Tests have shown that the difference in velocity between gas and inertia guns is so small near the muzzle as to be inconsequential. At the longer hunting ranges you're talking about, there is no noticeable difference whatsover in pellet velocity.

As oyeme pointed out, shell to shell velocity variations are greater than gas to inertia action differences, nor does a few thousands of an inch in bore diameter make any discernable difference either.

Can you provide any independent documentation that over-bored gas guns give up 25% in pellet energy to standard bored inertia guns. You're entitled to your opinion, but I think you're waaay off. There's no way a 26" SBE hits any harder at 40 yards than my 26" SX2 does with the same shells and shot size.


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 Post subject: Re: Retay Masai Mara thoughts
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:03 pm 
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I will do penetration tests to compare the backbore vs regular 18.4 to 18.6mm bore as soon as I get my hands on a back bore gun. Maybe will loan a Rem from one of my friends or similar.


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 Post subject: Re: Retay Masai Mara thoughts
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:41 pm 
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So you really think you're going to detect a difference in penetration depth between a .732" bore and a .742"? We'll be waiting breathlessly for your test results. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Retay Masai Mara thoughts
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:35 pm 
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lossking wrote:
So you really think you're going to detect a difference in penetration depth between a .732" bore and a .742"? We'll be waiting breathlessly for your test results. :roll:

Yeah, you can make a note.
I like scientific approach, I will test it. I wish I had access to some ballistic gel for this test.
Maybe I will create a stack of local newspapers or magazines then shoot at them from 40yds, count pages, etc. The spring is usually busy time for me: snows and turkey hunting.
So maybe this summer. If I prove that I was wrong then I will admit it, no worries.


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 Post subject: Re: Retay Masai Mara thoughts
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:51 pm 
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i3rider wrote:
lossking wrote:
So you really think you're going to detect a difference in penetration depth between a .732" bore and a .742"? We'll be waiting breathlessly for your test results. :roll:

Yeah, you can make a note.
I like scientific approach, I will test it. I wish I had access to some ballistic gel for this test.
Maybe I will create a stack of local newspapers or magazines then shoot at them from 40yds, count pages, etc. The spring is usually busy time for me: snows and turkey hunting.
So maybe this summer. If I prove that I was wrong then I will admit it, no worries.


Like they say, one test is worth a thousand opinions! Interested to see what you are able to detect.


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 Post subject: Re: Retay Masai Mara thoughts
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:57 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Retay Masai Mara thoughts
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:23 am 
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Nice shooting, Randy. What slug load were you using?


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 Post subject: Re: Retay Masai Mara thoughts
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:34 am 
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RandyWakeman wrote:



Randy, just out of curiosity, did anybody eat that thing?

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 Post subject: Re: Retay Masai Mara thoughts
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:15 am 
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i3rider wrote:
lossking wrote:
So you really think you're going to detect a difference in penetration depth between a .732" bore and a .742"? We'll be waiting breathlessly for your test results. :roll:

Yeah, you can make a note.
I like scientific approach, I will test it. I wish I had access to some ballistic gel for this test.
Maybe I will create a stack of local newspapers or magazines then shoot at them from 40yds, count pages, etc. The spring is usually busy time for me: snows and turkey hunting.
So maybe this summer. If I prove that I was wrong then I will admit it, no worries.


Shooting at a stack of local newspapers or magazines is hardly a scientific test. You can forget any notions of penetration, for that isn't directly the point. It is simply a matter of muzzle velocity. If you imagine you want more penetration from pellets, than you just use a faster shell . . . and enjoy the increase in recoil.



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