ShotGunWorld Shotguns

It is currently Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:07 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Sub-$800 Semi Auto with the Best Trigger?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:03 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:33 pm
Posts: 6356
Location: Mascoutah IL
cdb1097 wrote:
Dr Duk wrote:
Once you get used to a good trigger, you can’t go back!
Trigger job required!



What is exactly a good trigger? When I shoot my shotguns, I don't feel or think "Damn" this trigger cost me that target, I never really notice the difference between a 4 pound trigger, and an 8+ pound trigger. I never really notice any creep. My rifles have crisp, light pulls, and I like that. Not being sarcastic, just wondering what is a "good" trigger, and will it make my 85-95 SC scores better?


cdb


Exactly....Some manufactures try to convince you trigger on a shotgun is important so they can explain why their flat hammer springs are better than the competitors and sell you a gun that comes with a spare parts kit. It's a marketing ploy. Some author can write a book on shotguns and ramble on about the importance of a shotgun trigger but their goal is to write lots of words and sell books. The author's expertise is in English, Shakespeare and book selling; not guns. I guess if those whose motivation is to sell guns with good triggers or to sell books on guns tell you how important trigger pull in a shotgun is then it must be true. I'll bet if I look hard enough I could probably find a gunsmith who makes a living doing trigger work to tell me how important trigger pull in a shotgun is as well. It doesn't matter if it doesn't make a single target difference in your scores.




Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sub-$800 Semi Auto with the Best Trigger?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:55 pm 
Diamond Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:04 pm
Posts: 1398
Location: Upstate NY
cdb1097 wrote:
Not being sarcastic, just wondering what is a "good" trigger, and will it make my 85-95 SC scores better?


cdb


I wonder...

Isn't it possible that a better trigger might not be all that noticeable to some shooters, but still provide a positive result? Even though you might not feel your current trigger is a disadvantage, what if an excellent trigger job would gain you some performance?

I used to road race motorcycles (WERA) when I was young. There were a lot of little things you could do to your bike or set-up that gave no noticeable change in performance, but might gain you, for an example, 1/10 second shorter lap time. Some would say, "Big deal... 1/10 of a second off a 2 minute lap." But that 1/10 second advantage at the finish line is going to be about three bike-lengths. That can be enough to sometimes have a huge benefit. Stacking up a handful of these tiny advantages becomes a big advantage.

If an excellent trigger might give you a similar small, unnoticeable advantage, who knows... it might equate to a bird or two on your average score or maybe the difference between winning and losing a big competition.

Competition often has top competitors separated by fractions of percentages, etc. And top competitors won't pass up the chance to gain an advantage; even a tiny one. If I was involved in competitive shotgun shooting, I think I'd try to get the best trigger pull I could afford.

But as a hunter and a lousy casual skeet shooter, I'm pleased if my trigger makes the gun go "BANG!"

_________________
"The freaks can't be normally formalized, nor can we be formally normalized. What we want is complete weirdification."
KD2TTM
Member: NRA, New York Rifle and Pistol Association


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sub-$800 Semi Auto with the Best Trigger?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:09 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:04 am
Posts: 2736
desmobob wrote:
cdb1097 wrote:
Not being sarcastic, just wondering what is a "good" trigger, and will it make my 85-95 SC scores better?


cdb


I wonder...

Isn't it possible that a better trigger might not be all that noticeable to some shooters, but still provide a positive result? Even though you might not feel your current trigger is a disadvantage, what if an excellent trigger job would gain you some performance?

I used to road race motorcycles (WERA) when I was young. There were a lot of little things you could do to your bike or set-up that gave no noticeable change in performance, but might gain you, for an example, 1/10 second shorter lap time. Some would say, "Big deal... 1/10 of a second off a 2 minute lap." But that 1/10 second advantage at the finish line is going to be about three bike-lengths. That can be enough to sometimes have a huge benefit. Stacking up a handful of these tiny advantages becomes a big advantage.

If an excellent trigger might give you a similar small, unnoticeable advantage, who knows... it might equate to a bird or two on your average score or maybe the difference between winning and losing a big competition.

Competition often has top competitors separated by fractions of percentages, etc. And top competitors won't pass up the chance to gain an advantage; even a tiny one. If I was involved in competitive shotgun shooting, I think I'd try to get the best trigger pull I could afford.

But as a hunter and a lousy casual skeet shooter, I'm pleased if my trigger makes the gun go "BANG!"


To a greater extent than not, I have to admit that`s pretty much me. With the exception of my 870 Super Mag turkey gun, which has a noticeable creep or " take up " in the trigger, I can`t honestly say I`ve noticed any differences in the triggers of my field guns. Matter of fact, I don`t notice anything about the trigger in the field. Shooting in a dove field, to me, is much different than the slower, more deliberate shooting at a turkey. Having said that, I`m sure that all my guns must have at least somewhat different trigger pulls.

_________________
Fabarm L4S Initial Hunter
Remington 870 Super Magnum Turkey
Remington V3 Walnut
Remington 870 Express (Realtree Xtra camo)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sub-$800 Semi Auto with the Best Trigger?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:15 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:54 pm
Posts: 303
A heavy pull on a shotgun trigger is the same to me as driving around with 20lbs of air in my car tires. the worst was My 28 ga Tristar Viper , it was 8lb out of the box and was very noticeable when shooting it. a trip to Precision Sports and is now 4 3/4 lb.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Sub-$800 Semi Auto with the Best Trigger?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:27 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:54 pm
Posts: 11328
Location: Kansas
Expensive high end shotguns all come with great triggers. Some even allow the owner to specify trigger parameters. The absence of heavy creepy triggers among these elite guns should tell you somethings.

_________________
"We pulled the trigger, the safety went forward, both barrels fired almost together, the gun opened, ejectors kicked the fired cases over our shoulder ...the most completely automatic gun we ever fired" Elmer Keith- Shotguns by Keith


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sub-$800 Semi Auto with the Best Trigger?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:59 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:14 pm
Posts: 21179
Location: Just South of Indiana Gun Club!
.45colt wrote:
A heavy pull on a shotgun trigger is the same to me as driving around with 20lbs of air in my car tires. the worst was My 28 ga Tristar Viper , it was 8lb out of the box and was very noticeable when shooting it. a trip to Precision Sports and is now 4 3/4 lb.



My point exactly, I have a gun with a 4 pound trigger, and I shoot the exact same scores as I do with my Maxus that is 8+ pounds. I really can't tell the difference. I can tell there is a difference testing the guns empty, but on the SC course, I am oblivious to one being 8 pounds, and one being 4 pounds. I know the Maxus trigger is heavier, but my scores don't reflect any adverse results. I have had a couple of my CZ shotguns lightened when they were sent in for work, but I had them set at 6 pounds, kinda of a compromise between 4 and 8. Do I shoot them better or worse, nope, the same scores.


cdb

_________________
NRA Life Member
CZ/Huglu Shooter..912, 912 Tom Knapp Edition, 920, Canvasback Deluxe, 452 FS, and Trek Domone SL 6 Disc Bicycle Rider
Remembering My Friend 2fewdaysafield. The Huglu Drifter, Have Huglu, Will Travel


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sub-$800 Semi Auto with the Best Trigger?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:18 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:56 pm
Posts: 1125
I have 3 Remington V3 triggers and they are all pretty good right from the factory.
I have 2 Beretta A300 Outlander triggers and they are pretty good also.
It is very easy to get a light pull on any Remington 1100 by replacing
the sear spring which takes about 5 minutes, and there are many used
1100s out there for sale.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sub-$800 Semi Auto with the Best Trigger?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:33 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:33 pm
Posts: 6356
Location: Mascoutah IL
casonet wrote:
Expensive high end shotguns all come with great triggers. Some even allow the owner to specify trigger parameters. The absence of heavy creepy triggers among these elite guns should tell you somethings.


It tells me they have to market something to convince people that spending $15,000 plus on a shotgun will help you break more targets.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sub-$800 Semi Auto with the Best Trigger?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 8:36 pm 
Diamond Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:04 pm
Posts: 1398
Location: Upstate NY
DEG wrote:
Some author can write a book on shotguns and ramble on about the importance of a shotgun trigger but their goal is to write lots of words and sell books. The author's expertise is in English, Shakespeare and book selling; not guns. I guess if those whose motivation is to sell guns with good triggers or to sell books on guns tell you how important trigger pull in a shotgun is then it must be true.


So, you don't think anything of Mr. McIntosh's opinion of shotgun triggers because he's an author? The Fieldsport Wingshooting School he founded seems to have a good reputation.

How about Bob Brister? NSCA Hall of Famer... but just an author, so the chapter about the importance of good triggers in his famous book Shotgunning: The Art and the Science doesn't hold any water?

These two are very well-respected shotgun experts and the books they wrote may be the two best works available on the subject. I believe their opinions have value. I get the feeling that you don't read much...

_________________
"The freaks can't be normally formalized, nor can we be formally normalized. What we want is complete weirdification."
KD2TTM
Member: NRA, New York Rifle and Pistol Association


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sub-$800 Semi Auto with the Best Trigger?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 9:16 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:54 pm
Posts: 11328
Location: Kansas
Actually an awful lot of those high end guns come with a whole lot more than great triggers and many of them aren’t meant for shooting clay targets at all. They are hunting guns.

_________________
"We pulled the trigger, the safety went forward, both barrels fired almost together, the gun opened, ejectors kicked the fired cases over our shoulder ...the most completely automatic gun we ever fired" Elmer Keith- Shotguns by Keith


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sub-$800 Semi Auto with the Best Trigger?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:28 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:33 pm
Posts: 6356
Location: Mascoutah IL
desmobob wrote:
DEG wrote:
Some author can write a book on shotguns and ramble on about the importance of a shotgun trigger but their goal is to write lots of words and sell books. The author's expertise is in English, Shakespeare and book selling; not guns. I guess if those whose motivation is to sell guns with good triggers or to sell books on guns tell you how important trigger pull in a shotgun is then it must be true.


So, you don't think anything of Mr. McIntosh's opinion of shotgun triggers because he's an author? The Fieldsport Wingshooting School he founded seems to have a good reputation.

How about Bob Brister? NSCA Hall of Famer... but just an author, so the chapter about the importance of good triggers in his famous book Shotgunning: The Art and the Science doesn't hold any water?

These two are very well-respected shotgun experts and the books they wrote may be the two best works available on the subject. I believe their opinions have value. I get the feeling that you don't read much...


You are talking about people who earn an income by making people believe their options have value. There is no logical reason I have every heard why a better than average trigger in a shotgun will help someone break more flying targets. Guess what? If your rifle or pistol bullet was the same diameter of a shotgun pattern there would be no benefit to a light pulling crisp breaking trigger on them either.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sub-$800 Semi Auto with the Best Trigger?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:54 pm 
Shotgun Expert
Shotgun Expert
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:02 am
Posts: 26648
Location: Plainfield, IL
scribe556 wrote:
Hi all,

Wondering which semi-auto that is in the under $800
range new that has the best trigger?

I was thinking in terms of either gas or inertia and models like
Tristar G2, Mossberg 930, Beretta A300, Weatherby Element,
Franchi Affinity 3, and so forth.

I am aware of the M-Carbo spring kit for the SA-20, SA-08, etc. I did one
On my wife’s Mossberg SA-20. It helped reduce the weight of the pull,
But not the crispness of the break of course.

Any insights or experience with what you thought was an exceptional
Or better than average trigger out of the box are appreciated.

Best and stay safe!


You might want to consider Bruce Buck's comments here: https://shotgunreport.com/2015/11/04/tr ... king-duck/ .

Quote:
All auto triggers aren’t junk and all O/U triggers aren’t great. While generally autos do have a bit more creep, partially due to design and partially due to production scrimping, often the O/Us are far heavier. I’ve had excellent trigger pulls from a reworked Remington 1100 trigger done by the head armorer at the US Army Marksmanship Unit. I’ve also had marvelous Beretta auto trigger jobs from Allen Timney <www.timneytriggers.com>. Check the website to see what he wants to cut your trigger and plug the safety if you want that. I recommend him highly. I have a Timney trigger in one of my 303s that has an honest 65,000 through it and it is still surprisingly crisp. Timney knows Beretta auto triggers. I wish everyone else did. I’ve seen some of the “custom” houses that do triggers turn out some real jokes. One of the biggest auto mutilators sold a pal of mine a Beretta 390 package that included a tuned trigger. The trigger pull was down to about 2-1/2#, but it began creeping on Monday and didn’t fire until Friday. A proper trigger job is like good Peking duck- crispy, crispy, crispy.



_________________
--Randy

http://randywakeman.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: Anatidae, Bill M., Bing [Bot], birdhunter39, Chris Ferres, Colt99, dbjaaskeet, Denver1911, dfw_bill, Dr Duk, ebcjr, Ed Usinowicz, EricB, EuroMan, f5guy, Fishingrod, fishrising, FTRPILOT, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Google Feedfetcher, Hal4son, icyclefar, jaguarxk120, JASmith, Jcollette, JD-Man, Majestic-12 [Bot], maltzahn, marshfield, MAX & TOBY, May, McFarmer, Misplaced Lead, moonjeong, MRIDOC1, OBH Gun Club, papillonkirby, Patently Obvious, Pleasant Ridge, Rfarmer2, scott12v, shacked, shotgunmanny, Skeet_Man, slotracer577, smitka1, sneem2, Snotrub, templetk333, Tidefanatic, Tony Ferrigno, Undrcoverrednek, VictorGK, Wilfred1955


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group    - DMCA Notice