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 Post subject: Yildiz Eurotech, first cousin of the ProStar coming.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:16 am 
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Posts: 2500
Location: MI
When The ProStar came along there were some folks who seemed upset about the pricing compared to what the guns cost in Europe. Well, here ya go! Coming in 2021 is the Yildiz Eurotech, a shotgun with the European features— and the European price. Standard is grade 2 wood, sans an adjustable comb, 28” or 30” barrels, flush chokes, minimal engraving, 1 1/2x 2 1/4 on the comb, .733 bore at about 7lb. 12 oz. I haven’t seen the gun yet, but I did see a copy of the flier with the $2695 list price. While not set up as a dedicated sporter, it certainly seems capable for those who like the package. I’ll try to exercise my limited technological capabilities and post a copy of the flier.




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 Post subject: Re: Yildiz Eurotech, first cousin of the ProStar coming.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:36 am 
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Not offering it in the most in-demand barrel length (32") seems a little foolish.

They've SEVERELY limited their market by not offering a 32" barrel, esp when they've obviously capable of producing one. 2" of barrel should not be seen as a "cost savings" avenue as the lower grade of wood, lower engraving, and flush chokes are.

32" clay target guns outsell 28" ones by at least 100:1, and likely significantly higher.

Put together the features you describe, and a 32" barrel, and get it to market at a $2k street price, and they may find some traction. Now they'd be in competition with the entry level Browning and Beretta guns, which is where they should have been to begin with.

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 Post subject: Re: Yildiz Eurotech, first cousin of the ProStar coming.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:22 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:00 am
Posts: 14
I really do believe that the right Yildiz at the right price could be competitive in the US. They are getting closer to the right price now... street price on this I assume similar to Silver Pigeon or CX/CXS. But is it the right gun? Agree the lack of 32 inch barrels is a big issue if true. Perhaps this was the plan all along... by originally launching the ProStar at a high price point, most people complained about how expensive it was. At the same time, people also came to accept that a Yildiz could be a good gun at a lower ($2k) price point. A little reverse psychology!


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 Post subject: Re: Yildiz Eurotech, first cousin of the ProStar coming.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:08 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:12 am
Posts: 5715
Yildiz has somewhat of a stigma attached to them in the US. They will have a hard time overcoming competition from other guns that have been around a long time at that price point.


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 Post subject: Re: Yildiz Eurotech, first cousin of the ProStar coming.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:07 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:56 am
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To capture market they have to charge the lower price WITHOUT reducing the features. Keep the better wood, more engraving, extended chokes, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Yildiz Eurotech, first cousin of the ProStar coming.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:31 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:51 pm
Posts: 276
Location: PHX, AZ
Make it in a fixed IM/F with 30 inch barrels and a trap style parallel comb and you might just have me.


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 Post subject: Re: Yildiz Eurotech, first cousin of the ProStar coming.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:02 am 
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Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 10:29 am
Posts: 2500
Location: MI
Grade 4-5 wood, hand engraving, all the bells and whistles in a boss action for $2700? Why would any company want to try to capture market share and go belly up at the same time?

The stigma is perpetuated mostly by people who haven’t seen the new models of any make except for the pure status guns, while there are a lot more shooters who think the status guns are ridiculously over-priced. Good guns for the money are what most common folks are looking for. A lot of us look at 12-15 k entry level guns and wonder why. They break like all the others. Check the service lines at major shoots.

A slight Monte Carlo parallel comb is available with fixed chokes in the Pro Star line, although since the barrels and tube diameters are so well matched and the tubes so thin, there likely won’t be a noticeable difference in barrel weights.

I don’t work for ProStar and don’t make any money off them. I likely won’t get a Eurotech because I couldn’t get the offset I need out of the comb. I just think they’re a good deal for the money and it’s fun to watch people get all riled up on here based on suppositions.


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 Post subject: Re: Yildiz Eurotech, first cousin of the ProStar coming.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:42 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:51 pm
Posts: 276
Location: PHX, AZ
Mr. Holmes,

My remarks aren’t towards the products from a quality standpoint. My remarks come from a personal budget view and what I’m looking for in a gun for bunker.

Like I said if they came out with these in Grade 1 wood with International Trap style stock, fixed IM/F barrels, Blued receiver with no engraving and a basic case I would like to see what that price point would be as it would probably get me closer to filling out a 4473 for one.


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 Post subject: Re: Yildiz Eurotech, first cousin of the ProStar coming.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 6:32 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:56 am
Posts: 343
Dave Holmes wrote:
Grade 4-5 wood, hand engraving, all the bells and whistles in a boss action for $2700? Why would any company want to try to capture market share and go belly up at the same time?

The stigma is perpetuated mostly by people who haven’t seen the new models of any make except for the pure status guns, while there are a lot more shooters who think the status guns are ridiculously over-priced. Good guns for the money are what most common folks are looking for. A lot of us look at 12-15 k entry level guns and wonder why. They break like all the others. Check the service lines at major shoots.

A slight Monte Carlo parallel comb is available with fixed chokes in the Pro Star line, although since the barrels and tube diameters are so well matched and the tubes so thin, there likely won’t be a noticeable difference in barrel weights.

I don’t work for ProStar and don’t make any money off them. I likely won’t get a Eurotech because I couldn’t get the offset I need out of the comb. I just think they’re a good deal for the money and it’s fun to watch people get all riled up on here based on suppositions.

It is simple. The operative term here is “loss leader”. Yildiz is fighting against a stubborn stigma against its quality. It needs a way to break free of that. Investment of a few million dollars in making guns that will change people’s minds is one way to do it. Cheaper than advertising.


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 Post subject: Re: Yildiz Eurotech, first cousin of the ProStar coming.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:12 am 
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The Eurotech is a field gun set up with grade 2 wood. Like every other shotgun made, you could use it for clay sports, but it isn’t set up for competition. The most difficult market is upper end over/under field guns. There simply isn’t that much demand and the folks that want them are very picky. $2700 puts this gun in that group. Simply having nice wood won’t cut it. The ProStar actually makes more sense if you truly believe it is Perazzi quality. I’m always in favor of having choices. The Eurosport isn’t a choice I would even consider.


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 Post subject: Re: Yildiz Eurotech, first cousin of the ProStar coming.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:29 am 
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drawdc wrote:
The Eurotech is a field gun set up with grade 2 wood. Like every other shotgun made, you could use it for clay sports, but it isn’t set up for competition. The most difficult market is upper end over/under field guns. There simply isn’t that much demand and the folks that want them are very picky. $2700 puts this gun in that group. Simply having nice wood won’t cut it. The ProStar actually makes more sense if you truly believe it is Perazzi quality. I’m always in favor of having choices. The Eurosport isn’t a choice I would even consider.

I get that and don’t disagree. For that money and aesthetics there are lots of proven choices so that taking a risk isn’t required. My point is that they could make the gun such a good deal with regard to price and appearance that a few adventurous souls wouldn’t be able to resist. Then they would have a chance of building up a reputation for quality. It would likely be a 20 year project, but it has to start somewhere. The loss on each gun, if that is even real, is a small price to pay for the word of mouth advertising and generation of a quality history.


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 Post subject: Re: Yildiz Eurotech, first cousin of the ProStar coming.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:39 am 
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friend of a friend wrote:
drawdc wrote:
The Eurotech is a field gun set up with grade 2 wood. Like every other shotgun made, you could use it for clay sports, but it isn’t set up for competition. The most difficult market is upper end over/under field guns. There simply isn’t that much demand and the folks that want them are very picky. $2700 puts this gun in that group. Simply having nice wood won’t cut it. The ProStar actually makes more sense if you truly believe it is Perazzi quality. I’m always in favor of having choices. The Eurosport isn’t a choice I would even consider.

I get that and don’t disagree. For that money and aesthetics there are lots of proven choices so that taking a risk isn’t required. My point is that they could make the gun such a good deal with regard to price and appearance that a few adventurous souls wouldn’t be able to resist. Then they would have a chance of building up a reputation for quality. It would likely be a 20 year project, but it has to start somewhere. The loss on each gun, if that is even real, is a small price to pay for the word of mouth advertising and generation of a quality history.


And I agree with that. The Lexus business model has been discussed before. Might not take that long.


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 Post subject: Re: Yildiz Eurotech, first cousin of the ProStar coming.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 12:31 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:21 pm
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So close to getting it right. If they had 32" barrels with the 10x6 ribs like on their other guns, I'd be there. I'm fine with cheap wood.
Heck, if they made Prostar a unique brand and ditched any "Yildiz" markings on them, they could probably sell a bunch more.


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 Post subject: Re: Yildiz Eurotech, first cousin of the ProStar coming.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 9:33 am 
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mpolans wrote:
So close to getting it right. If they had 32" barrels with the 10x6 ribs like on their other guns, I'd be there. I'm fine with cheap wood.
Heck, if they made Prostar a unique brand and ditched any "Yildiz" markings on them, they could probably sell a bunch more.

In general Turkish gun makers have resisted longer barrels all across their product lines. I wonder why they continue to dump 28” barrels on the market despite the trend for longer on guns not specifically identified as for the field.


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 Post subject: Re: Yildiz Eurotech, first cousin of the ProStar coming.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:15 pm 
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no 32 inch barrel no bueno.

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 Post subject: Re: Yildiz Eurotech, first cousin of the ProStar coming.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:26 pm 
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Dave Holmes wrote:
Grade 4-5 wood, hand engraving, all the bells and whistles in a boss action for $2700? Why would any company want to try to capture market share and go belly up at the same time?


This is what the ProStar (std, non-engraved version) is DIRECTLY competing with:

https://www.joeletchenguns.com/etchen-s ... 32-barrels

There is nothing magical or mysterious about the "Boss action" design that makes it, by itself, a selling point or of inherent value.

Sorry, but anyone who buys a ProStar for $4k instead of an Etchen 687 for $3500 is NUTS.

This is what the Eurotech is DIRECTLY competing with:

https://grabagun.com/ber-j686sj2-686-sl ... -ochp.html

Sorry, but anyone who buys a Eurotech for $2700 instead of a 686 SP1 for $1800 is NUTS.

_________________
S3 Smingler Shotgun Sports
Ian Smingler
585-613-8098
[email protected]
http://www.sminglershotgunsports.com

Manufacturer of Custom Brass Barrel Weights for over/under, top single, and unsingle shotguns.


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 Post subject: Re: Yildiz Eurotech, first cousin of the ProStar coming.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 1:08 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:21 pm
Posts: 703
I'd say the Boss action is inherently stronger and therefore better. I just don't think as executed by a manufacturer primarily known for low-end guns with a spotty reputation for quality, it's worth $4k. I'm not interested in the Eurotech variant, but if they took the standard Prostar with 32" barrels they're offering for $4k and just ditched the fancy case and downgraded the wood to Eurotech quality, I'd buy one for about $2500 over a Beretta 686 variant.


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 Post subject: Re: Yildiz Eurotech, first cousin of the ProStar coming.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:26 am 
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mpolans wrote:
I'd say the Boss action is inherently stronger and therefore better.


Define "stronger".

"Better" than what?

Can you reference any independent studies that show that a Boss-style action is "stronger" or "better" in terms of quantifiable numbers?

_________________
S3 Smingler Shotgun Sports
Ian Smingler
585-613-8098
[email protected]
http://www.sminglershotgunsports.com

Manufacturer of Custom Brass Barrel Weights for over/under, top single, and unsingle shotguns.


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 Post subject: Re: Yildiz Eurotech, first cousin of the ProStar coming.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:52 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:21 pm
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Skeet_Man wrote:
mpolans wrote:
I'd say the Boss action is inherently stronger and therefore better.


Define "stronger".

"Better" than what?

Can you reference any independent studies that show that a Boss-style action is "stronger" or "better" in terms of quantifiable numbers?


First, I know I say "Perazzi" below, but in every relevant aspect, the Prostar actions are identical to Perazzi MX12 actions, such that barrels can be used interchangeably with typical fitting.

Where the monobloc mates to the receiver, the Perazzi's boss action has larger bearing surfaces than Beretta 680 series actions. The Perazzi receiver walls are thicker than the Berettas. The receiver knuckles on the Perazzis are wider and provide more bearing surface than on Berettas. In addition to the trapezoidal lumps in the receiver that mate into recesses in the monobloc, the forward bottom portion of the Perazzi monobloc also mates with a recess inside the bottom front of the receiver. While the Beretta's receiver has protrusions that mate with barrel in a similar manner, there's nothing else on the round bottom of the Beretta monobloc that mates with the bottom of the Beretta receiver. See the red circled areas on the pics below.

Image
Image
Image
Image

In addition, the Perazzi locking block is more robust. It might not be apparent when the pics aren't to scale, but the two prongs on the Perazzi's H-shaped locking block that mate with the barrel are shorter, wider, and taller, than the the prongs on the Beretta's U-shaped locking block.

Image
Image

As for independent studies with quantifiable numbers, no I don't, I'm just going by what I've observed by owning both and having them apart in my hands and coming to reasoned conclusions. Then again, I'd hazard a guess that you don't have any independent studies on such either. If you do, I'd love to read them. Otherwise, based on the pics above or any other evidence you could provide, I'm curious to hear how you come to the conclusion that the Beretta's action is equal to (or better) than the Perazzi's boss action.


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 Post subject: Re: Yildiz Eurotech, first cousin of the ProStar coming.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 6:20 am 
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Based on historical results wrt the two guns, Perazzi and Beretta 68X or 69X, are there any differences in longevity and reliability of service to speak of? All that analysis of the action features is meaningless if it doesn't comport with experience in use. Sometimes bigger and heavier isn't better. It is just bigger and heavier. Oversizing a part is not better than right sizing it. Think the difference between clunkiness and elegance. I don't know one is better than the other. It is likely moot (not mute in case you were wondering).




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