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 Post subject: Advices for a beginner
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:23 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:03 pm
Posts: 4
Hello,

I am looking for a shotgun for home defense. I do practice shooting with bolt rifles but never touched a shotgun before.

Any brands and models in particular ? My gunsmith received some Fabarms, they look sexy but are they reliable ?
Also what kind a slugs do I need ? Slugs for boar hunting or is too powerfull ?

Thanks in advance




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 Post subject: Re: Advices for a beginner
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:42 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2016 5:47 pm
Posts: 453
Location: NW IL
Most HD shotguns have short smooth bore barrels and they do not usually have good sights for hunting with slugs. With a smooth bore barrel you would want to shoot rifled slugs. Good luck buying slugs right now. In my area they are hard to find.

Personally I would look at the Mossberg 500 line of shotguns. American made pump shotguns with many different options. You should be able to find something you could use for HD and hunt with. Maybe a combo gun with 2 different barrels. One for HD and one for shooting slugs.

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 Post subject: Re: Advices for a beginner
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:44 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:56 pm
Posts: 1403
You can do internet search for home defense shotguns
and come up with things like this:
https://www.guns.com/news/2020/05/20/ei ... me-defense

One thing to consider, a 20 gauge works good also, especially if the shooter does not like recoil.

You will find more sites explaining all this than you really care to read. Some of them even know what they are talking about.


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 Post subject: Re: Advices for a beginner
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:46 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:56 pm
Posts: 1403
Lots of guys to talk to here on the tactical/HD site right here:
https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewfo ... a28374be0c


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 Post subject: Re: Advices for a beginner
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:19 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:04 pm
Posts: 593
For straight up home defense, it's hard to beat a basic pump gun. Mossberg 500 vs Remington 870 is like arguing Ford vs. Chevy, but both are reliable, inexpensive, designs commonly available.

Don't get distracted by gizmos - lasers and red dots and heat shields and the rest. For an actual intruder coming up the stairs, you need something to go bang every time and be dead simple to use. The rest of it complication.


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 Post subject: Re: Advices for a beginner
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 9:51 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:41 pm
Posts: 312
Mine is a Mossberg 500 with about an 18 1/2 inch barrel and an extended magazine. No fancy sights or grips. I found it years ago in a Cabela’s used gun rack for less than $200. I would not use slugs for home defense. Too much fear of over penetration through walls.
There are always discussions about what ammo to use. I won’t get into it here. I load mine with an unorthodox load; Hevishot Dead Coyote. It is said to roll a coyote at 60 yards. I figure it will handle an intruder across a bedroom. Increased number of pellets might help in getting hits in a darkened room, but I wouldn’t argue the point.
If you also want to hunt hogs, buy a second longer, rifled barrel and shoot sabot slugs.

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 Post subject: Re: Advices for a beginner
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 10:35 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:03 pm
Posts: 4335
Location: Mid-Missouri
bebert wrote:
Hello,

I am looking for a shotgun for home defense. I do practice shooting with bolt rifles but never touched a shotgun before.

Any brands and models in particular ? My gunsmith received some Fabarms, they look sexy but are they reliable ?
Also what kind a slugs do I need ? Slugs for boar hunting or is too powerfull ?

Thanks in advance



Forget sexy. Forget slugs. Forget sights.

The ideal "home defense" shotgun is 1.) simple, 2.) reliable, 3.) maneuverable, 4.) quick

It's a blunt force device. It's used for delivering a package of 00 Buckshot at distances of 30 feet or less. They are primarily an indoor weapon. It's what you grab when the bad guy is inside your home or just beyond your door. You don't sight it. You point it. You shoot. You rack. Hopefully, you're done.

You also don't shoot it much. You prop it up behind the door and there it sits. You'll likely not take it to the range more than a couple of times. It will mostly gather dust.

I like home defense shotguns, and own a couple. Their main advantages is that the 00 buck round is devastating and a true one-shot stopper. Also, shot doesn't travel that far so you don't need to worry too much about wayward rounds traveling 300-400 yards away. With practice, a guy can shoot a shotgun instinctively, and they're well-suited for moving targets.

But honestly, a carbine is a much better defensive weapon for any situation where you can aim. Certainly a rifle is better when the bad guy is outside the home. A light barrel, collapsible stock AR15 is ideal. The Hi-Point 9mm carbine is a good choice. Even a lever action thuddy-thuddy will work better than a shotgun in an outdoor-distance setting.

Save the slugs for the day a rouge bear is rampaging the neighborhood or a lion escapes from the zoo . . . otherwise, they're not too useful.


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 Post subject: Re: Advices for a beginner
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 10:50 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:04 pm
Posts: 593
The ammo issue is another point of endless discussion (and marketing). Bigger/faster shot penetrates better, but it also shoots through things (like walls).

Any target getting hit at 5 yards, even with a light target load 1 oz of #8 birdshot, is going down.


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 Post subject: Re: Advices for a beginner
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:21 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:56 pm
Posts: 1403
You have got some really good advice here from several.
Keep it simple, don't spend a pile of money, you don't need
slugs, probably better to use shot, buckshot, even bird shot
at short range will take the fight out of anyone. It ain't rocket
science. Use your own wits, and figure it out, you will do fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Advices for a beginner
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 7:03 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:03 pm
Posts: 4
Thank you guys for all the advices.
I'll keep it simple like my bolt rifle and buy à rem 870, Mossbergs 500 are a bit difficult to find in my country. I don't want to risk to hit anybody through the walls by mistake so I'll go for the buck shots.

I live in Europe, AR's are forbiden over here and handguns are a pain in the a.. to buy and keep, shotgun is my only option.

thanks again.


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 Post subject: Re: Advices for a beginner
PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:33 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2016 5:47 pm
Posts: 453
Location: NW IL
bebert wrote:
Thank you guys for all the advices.
I'll keep it simple like my bolt rifle and buy à rem 870, Mossbergs 500 are a bit difficult to find in my country. I don't want to risk to hit anybody through the walls by mistake so I'll go for the buck shots.

I live in Europe, AR's are forbiden over here and handguns are a pain in the a.. to buy and keep, shotgun is my only option.

thanks again.


bebert,

Depending what is available where you are located could make a difference in what to buy. Fabarm shotguns are good looking guns but I have never been around them. Many people use a short barrel pump shotgun for home defense. A semi auto would work also.

So how is ammo availability where you are located?

_________________
Hunters don't have to make excuses for shooting at birds that are too close.


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 Post subject: Re: Advices for a beginner
PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:06 pm 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 12:11 pm
Posts: 3580
Location: Afton, VA
To further the argument for a simple pump shotgun, consider the following:
In a home invasion scenario you have to answer two questions. Does the intruder mean me or my family harm? Do I want to use deadly force?

The sound of a pump shotgun chambering a round in the dark of night is a distinctive sound. It should get the intruder going a$$holes and elbows in the opposite direction, saving stains on the carpet and a lot of paperwork. If the intruder continues to close the distance he is not right in the head and you can be assured he does not mean you and your family well.

Since he does not mean you and your family well, the second question becomes easier to answer.

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 Post subject: Re: Advices for a beginner
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:50 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:03 pm
Posts: 4
noweil wrote:
Depending what is available where you are located could make a difference in what to buy. Fabarm shotguns are good looking guns but I have never been around them. Many people use a short barrel pump shotgun for home defense. A semi auto would work also.

So how is ammo availability where you are located?


Ammo availability is ok but it's mostly for hunting : slugs for boar, buckshot and birdshot. I've read on a french gun and rifflescope review website that it was a good option for me, see https://www.armurerietirchasse.com/


Last edited by bebert on Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Advices for a beginner
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:53 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:03 pm
Posts: 4
Bob_K wrote:
To further the argument for a simple pump shotgun, consider the following:
In a home invasion scenario you have to answer two questions. Does the intruder mean me or my family harm? Do I want to use deadly force?

The sound of a pump shotgun chambering a round in the dark of night is a distinctive sound. It should get the intruder going a$$holes and elbows in the opposite direction, saving stains on the carpet and a lot of paperwork. If the intruder continues to close the distance he is not right in the head and you can be assured he does not mean you and your family well.

Since he does not mean you and your family well, the second question becomes easier to answer.


Yes, this is exactly why I went for the shotgun choice, thanks to hollywood and such, everyone knows what a shotgun sounds like and fears it.


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 Post subject: Re: Advices for a beginner
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:48 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:33 pm
Posts: 6568
Location: Mascoutah IL
Win50 wrote:
The ammo issue is another point of endless discussion (and marketing). Bigger/faster shot penetrates better, but it also shoots through things (like walls).

Any target getting hit at 5 yards, even with a light target load 1 oz of #8 birdshot, is going down.


Suggesting #8 birdshot would ever be an acceptable self-defense round is dangerous advise that I hope everyone ignores.


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 Post subject: Re: Advices for a beginner
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:57 pm 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 8:09 pm
Posts: 745
Location: Oklahoma
DEG wrote:
Win50 wrote:
The ammo issue is another point of endless discussion (and marketing). Bigger/faster shot penetrates better, but it also shoots through things (like walls).

Any target getting hit at 5 yards, even with a light target load 1 oz of #8 birdshot, is going down.


Suggesting #8 birdshot would ever be an acceptable self-defense round is dangerous advise that I hope everyone ignores.

I have to disagree. A ten hard distance hit with any size shot would do more than enough to incapacitate an intruder. The pattern would be so tight at an indoor distance, I would think the size of shot would not even matter.


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 Post subject: Re: Advices for a beginner
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:48 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:04 pm
Posts: 593
DEG wrote:
Win50 wrote:
The ammo issue is another point of endless discussion (and marketing). Bigger/faster shot penetrates better, but it also shoots through things (like walls).

Any target getting hit at 5 yards, even with a light target load 1 oz of #8 birdshot, is going down.


Suggesting #8 birdshot would ever be an acceptable self-defense round is dangerous advise that I hope everyone ignores.


I'm not saying it's my first choice (I have some BB loads in the HD gun) but at that distance the payload is effectively a slug. Getting hit with an ounce of anything at 1200 FPS is going to be noteworthy.

My main message is not to get hung up on the tacticool hype. Something is better than nothing, and the returns diminish rapidly on more than a basic pump and regular hunting shells. It would be far better to spend a few more bucks on some extra shells and range time to be familiar with the gun.


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 Post subject: Re: Advices for a beginner
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:52 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:33 pm
Posts: 6568
Location: Mascoutah IL
Specklebelly wrote:
DEG wrote:
Win50 wrote:
The ammo issue is another point of endless discussion (and marketing). Bigger/faster shot penetrates better, but it also shoots through things (like walls).

Any target getting hit at 5 yards, even with a light target load 1 oz of #8 birdshot, is going down.


Suggesting #8 birdshot would ever be an acceptable self-defense round is dangerous advise that I hope everyone ignores.

I have to disagree. A ten hard distance hit with any size shot would do more than enough to incapacitate an intruder. The pattern would be so tight at an indoor distance, I would think the size of shot would not even matter.


I suggest you do more research from credible sources before taking a position that could easily put people in danger if they followed your advise. Ballistics testing very clearly shows individual shot pellet mass and velocity does in fact matter a great deal regardless of distance.

The FBI's standard for an adequate duty/defense load is one that penetrates between 12 - 18 inches in ballistics gel. #8 shot penetrates about 5 inches regardless of distance. Barely enough to get through a winter jacket or cause more than a massively painful flesh wound if not jacket. It's possible it might stop someone, but I would never trust my life to a round that might work and no credible source would ever suggest bird shot is an acceptable self-defense load.


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 Post subject: Re: Advices for a beginner
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:15 pm 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 8:09 pm
Posts: 745
Location: Oklahoma
DEG wrote:
Specklebelly wrote:
DEG wrote:
Win50 wrote:
The ammo issue is another point of endless discussion (and marketing). Bigger/faster shot penetrates better, but it also shoots through things (like walls).

Any target getting hit at 5 yards, even with a light target load 1 oz of #8 birdshot, is going down.


Suggesting #8 birdshot would ever be an acceptable self-defense round is dangerous advise that I hope everyone ignores.

I have to disagree. A ten hard distance hit with any size shot would do more than enough to incapacitate an intruder. The pattern would be so tight at an indoor distance, I would think the size of shot would not even matter.


I suggest you do more research from credible sources before taking a position that could easily put people in danger if they followed your advise. Ballistics testing very clearly shows individual shot pellet mass and velocity does in fact matter a great deal regardless of distance.

The FBI's standard for an adequate duty/defense load is one that penetrates between 12 - 18 inches in ballistics gel. #8 shot penetrates about 5 inches regardless of distance. Barely enough to get through a winter jacket or cause more than a massively painful flesh wound if not jacket. It's possible it might stop someone, but I would never trust my life to a round that might work and no credible source would ever suggest bird shot is an acceptable self-defense load.


Perhaps you should do some research yourself.

https://www.outdoorhub.com/stories/2015 ... e-defense/


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 Post subject: Re: Advices for a beginner
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:17 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:33 pm
Posts: 6568
Location: Mascoutah IL
Specklebelly wrote:

Perhaps you should do some research yourself.

https://www.outdoorhub.com/stories/2015 ... e-defense/


No need. I've done considerable research into this and my comments are fact. I really didn't need you to provide a source that would advance the silly wives tale that bird shot makes an effective self defense load. Good luck with that.




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