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 Post subject: New Model 12
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:56 pm 
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Location: Colorado Springs, Co
I bought a gun at the Tulsa gun show.
Model 12 20 ga. 26” barrel. Serial#315368. Year of manufacture? Nickel steel barrel.
Gun has been refinished, vent rib added.
What did that do to the value??
Full choke. Since it has been altered, would opening the choke make any difference in future value??

The majority of 12s and 42s were refinished.




Last edited by Dr Duk on Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New Model 12
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:43 am 
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I do not think opening the choke will change the value.


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 Post subject: Re: New Model 12
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:12 am 
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Bill M. wrote:
I do not think opening the choke will change the value.


Kind of thought so since it was already altered.


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 Post subject: Re: New Model 12
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:55 pm 
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Choke is funny. I remember Bob Brister telling the story about a shotgun he had. Might have been a model 12. He opened the choke from Full to ImpCyl. It was still stamped Full on the barrel. He said he would loan it out and the shooters would compliment him on how hard it shot. I don’t know if that’s a commentary on choke or shooters. I wouldn’t worry about opening the choke.

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 Post subject: Re: New Model 12
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:00 pm 
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Location: Western Tampa, FL
Dr Duk wrote:
I bought a gun at the Tulsa gun shoe.
Model 12 20 ga. 26” barrel. Serial#315368. Year of manufacture? Nickel steel barrel.
Gun has been refinished, vent rib added.
What did that do to the value??
Full choke. Since it has been altered, would opening the choke make any difference in future value??

The majority of 12s and 42s were refinished.



1) Well, since you bought the gun, it's value is no less than what you paid.

2) Don't think the choke being opened would do it anything to its future value.

3) I am not expert enough to say definitively, but I don't think a general statement that most model 12s & 42s have been refinished is accurate. Maybe among the ones you see for sale that is true, but there are train car loads of them that never enter the market place.

A Winchester collector would be better able to comment on the model 12s and Larry Sidener could tell you whether it is true or not on model 42s.


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 Post subject: Re: New Model 12
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:41 am 
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oyeme wrote:
Dr Duk wrote:
I bought a gun at the Tulsa gun shoe.
Model 12 20 ga. 26” barrel. Serial#315368. Year of manufacture? Nickel steel barrel.
Gun has been refinished, vent rib added.
What did that do to the value??
Full choke. Since it has been altered, would opening the choke make any difference in future value??

The majority of 12s and 42s were refinished.



1) Well, since you bought the gun, it's value is no less than what you paid.

2) Don't think the choke being opened would do it anything to its future value.

3) I am not expert enough to say definitively, but I don't think a general statement that most model 12s & 42s have been refinished is accurate. Maybe among the ones you see for sale that is true, but there are train car loads of them that never enter the market place.

Yes, based on what I saw at the gun show.

A Winchester collector would be better able to comment on the model 12s and Larry Sidener could tell you whether it is true or not on model 42s.


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 Post subject: Re: New Model 12
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:10 pm 
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Location: Colorado Springs, Co
Shot the gun today.
Old tolerances must have been really tight.
Shot REM Gun Clubs. Wouldn’t eject. Had to dig shell out. 2nd shot the same.
Had some AAs and they worked fine.
Gun Clubs are slightly longer, who knew?


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 Post subject: Re: New Model 12
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:13 pm 
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Location: Omaha, NE
Will you be trading this model 12 for a Beretta A400 eventually?

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 Post subject: Re: New Model 12
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:16 pm 
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EricB wrote:
Will you be trading this model 12 for a Beretta A400 eventually?


Never say never! :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: New Model 12
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:46 pm 
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Location: Weld County, CO
Dr Duk, congratulations on your new Model 12! Of course, I wont believe it until I see some pictures :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: New Model 12
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:02 am 
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AJ-M12 wrote:
Dr Duk, congratulations on your new Model 12! Of course, I wont believe it until I see some pictures :lol:


It is such a PITA to post pictures here.
I’ll get to later today! {hs#


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 Post subject: Re: New Model 12
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:00 pm 
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AJ-M12 wrote:
Dr Duk, congratulations on your new Model 12! Of course, I wont believe it until I see some pictures :lol:


Image362017AF-93E9-404E-BE87-4886DD112000 by Patty Mjos, on Flickr


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 Post subject: Re: New Model 12
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:16 pm 
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Beautiful wood, I like that forearm style.


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 Post subject: Re: New Model 12
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:38 pm 
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McFarmer wrote:
Beautiful wood, I like that forearm style.


Prefer it to the corn cob forearm.


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 Post subject: Re: New Model 12
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:46 pm 
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Some guns, especially older guns it seems, just don't like those steel bases. Win AA or other similar cases work fine. My son shoots an old Fox BSE that is that way.

26" Full choke seems an odd combination on a gun of that age. I'm sure there are exceptions, but generally IC choke was the norm for 26" barrels. Since it has a rib added, could it have started life as a longer full choke barrel and been shortened? I'd shoot it to see how it patterns before I made modifications.

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 Post subject: Re: New Model 12
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:01 pm 
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Location: Colorado Springs, Co
Tal/IL wrote:
Some guns, especially older guns it seems, just don't like those steel bases. Win AA or other similar cases work fine. My son shoots an old Fox BSE that is that way.

26" Full choke seems an odd combination on a gun of that age. I'm sure there are exceptions, but generally IC choke was the norm for 26" barrels. Since it has a rib added, could it have started life as a longer full choke barrel and been shortened? I'd shoot it to see how it patterns before I made modifications.


Serial #s match receiver and barrel
.


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 Post subject: Re: New Model 12
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:37 pm 
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Location: Colorado Springs, Co
Tal/IL wrote:
Some guns, especially older guns it seems, just don't like those steel bases. Win AA or other similar cases work fine. My son shoots an old Fox BSE that is that way.

26" Full choke seems an odd combination on a gun of that age. I'm sure there are exceptions, but generally IC choke was the norm for 26" barrels. Since it has a rib added, could it have started life as a longer full choke barrel and been shortened? I'd shoot it to see how it patterns before I made modifications.


Nothing to do with steel rim. Extracted fine.
Gun Clubs are about 1/8” longer than AAs after firing


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 Post subject: Re: New Model 12
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:08 pm 
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I’ve got a 16 gauge built on the same frame. Mine has also been refinished, it has a Simmons rib and polychoke. I upgraded the wood as I wanted a longer LOP.

All that hurts the value, but I shoot mine regularly and really don’t care. It was originally my dads quail gun. I shoot sporting clays with it now. I’ve shoot about the same scores with the model 12 as my much more expensive Ceasar Guerini.

I occasionally have problems with the older Herters shells, I reload, they are a hair longer than Remington’s.

I’ll never sell this gun.


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 Post subject: Re: New Model 12
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:55 pm 
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Location: Weld County, CO
She’s a beauty! Thanks for the pictures.

One of the few M12s I kept is a 16ga 26” full choke. It is a beater that someone shellacked and cold blued. I couldn’t get out of it what it’s worth to me, so I try to take it squirrel hunting once in a while.


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 Post subject: Re: New Model 12
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:12 am 
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Your 20 gauge Model 12 started life with 2 1/2 inch chamber, at that serial number.
I would examine the chamber closely, in looking at extraction issues.




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