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 Post subject: Re: How to shoot a 40 yard quartering crosser?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 5:56 am 
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moishepipick wrote:
drawdc wrote:
moishepipick wrote:
You don’t measure lead. You apply it. It has been firmly established by Brister that you can’t swing through a 40 yard crosser fast enough to not shoot behind it. You are applying lead if you are hitting the target. Denying that doesn’t change anything. The sooner you accept the fact, the more targets you will hit.


Wow. Will I get as good as you?

Too bad you didn’t understand what Brister said.

Too bad you are wrong. I understand exactly what he said. And I have already quoted it to you. But you refuse to understand it. In plain English he said you cannot swing fast enough to hit a 40 yard/40 mph crosser without applying additional lead. You can fight it all you want, but it is in black and white. Sorry that the truth is inconvenient. But if you give yourself up to it, you will become a better shooter.
Attachment:
Brister_1.png


This the first I have heard of Brister. Is the book a valuable read? AND can you please clarify his statement about “you cannot swing fast enough..... “
Does it mean swing fast and furiously and get way out in front of the target? Thanks



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 Post subject: Re: How to shoot a 40 yard quartering crosser?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:42 am 
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Too bad you didn’t understand what Brister said.[/quote]
Too bad you are wrong. I understand exactly what he said. And I have already quoted it to you. But you refuse to understand it. In plain English he said you cannot swing fast enough to hit a 40 yard/40 mph crosser without applying additional lead. You can fight it all you want, but it is in black and white. Sorry that the truth is inconvenient. But if you give yourself up to it, you will become a better shooter.
Attachment:
Brister_1.png
[/quote]

This the first I have heard of Brister. Is the book a valuable read? AND can you please clarify his statement about “you cannot swing fast enough..... “
Does it mean swing fast and furiously and get way out in front of the target? Thanks[/quote]

“Shotgunning: The Art and Science”. Written in 1976. A lot of it is very dated, but an interesting read. Brister was the outdoor writer for the Houston Chronicle and then Field and Stream. Credited with bringing English Sporting to the U.S.

Brister was not a fan of the Churchill method. The passage that Robert/Morris refers to was Churchill’s theory that if you swung through the target at the proper speed, you could pull the trigger when you reached the target and your gun speed would be sufficient to build lead on a 40 yard crossing target. Brister tested that and proved it wrong by towing sheets behind a station wagon his wife was driving.

If you try to swing through a 40 yard crosser and pull the trigger when you reach the target you will shoot behind it. But you most certainly can swing through it and build sufficient forward allowance to break the target. I think most of us would recommend pull away or maintained on a true crosser, but you can shoot them with pull through. All of us that recommended swing through or pull through were basing that recommendation on the target quartering away, I believe. Sorry I was involved in derailing your question.


Last edited by drawdc on Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:51 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How to shoot a 40 yard quartering crosser?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:06 am 
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The most common way in the UK to shoot targets like this is by holding fairly well out but below the line and triangulating to the kill point.

Most avoid swinging through along the line as it often results in over leading - except on slow targets. On super fast quartering, maintained can work too.

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 Post subject: Re: How to shoot a 40 yard quartering crosser?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:02 pm 
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I found Mike McAlpines' article on Shotgun Sports Mag, It is pre-2017. Here is the quote.

"the best way for most shooters to take a quartering target is to use the "intercept method". The intercept is really a combination of swing-Through and maintained lead, with the exception the muzzle starts farther below the target line, as well as behind it. As your muzzle intercepts the line at your chosen break point, it will be in the right place so pull the trigger"

I drew a rectangle and put the line in it for a visual

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 Post subject: Re: How to shoot a 40 yard quartering crosser?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:14 pm 
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JerseyJim wrote:
I found Mike McAlpines' article on Shotgun Sports Mag, It is pre-2017. Here is the quote.

"the best way for most shooters to take a quartering target is to use the "intercept method". The intercept is really a combination of swing-Through and maintained lead, with the exception the muzzle starts farther below the target line, as well as behind it. As your muzzle intercepts the line at your chosen break point, it will be in the right place so pull the trigger"

I drew a rectangle and put the line in it for a visual


That is an excellent description.


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 Post subject: Re: How to shoot a 40 yard quartering crosser?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:47 pm 
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Swinging through it to the lead required is a good method for me if it is really quartering. I find when some of those targets are far enough away and at an angle that needs more than about two feet I'm going to pull away. If it needs say two feet, I'm going to mount two feet behind and swing through to two feet in front. That helps me stay on the line. I'm no awesome shot but those techniques help me.

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 Post subject: Re: How to shoot a 40 yard quartering crosser?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:27 am 
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JerseyJim wrote:
I found Mike McAlpines' article on Shotgun Sports Mag, It is pre-2017. Here is the quote.

"the best way for most shooters to take a quartering target is to use the "intercept method". The intercept is really a combination of swing-Through and maintained lead, with the exception the muzzle starts farther below the target line, as well as behind it. As your muzzle intercepts the line at your chosen break point, it will be in the right place so pull the trigger"
As I posted above this is the favoured method here in the UK, just different terminology, but it depends on speed and angle.

The worst place to be on fast quartering targets is holding on the line and chasing from behind. Meaning that swing through often becomes slash through causing rushing of the target and over leading due to excessive gun speed.

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 Post subject: Re: How to shoot a 40 yard quartering crosser?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:32 pm 
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Trickster wrote:
JerseyJim wrote:
I found Mike McAlpines' article on Shotgun Sports Mag, It is pre-2017. Here is the quote.

"the best way for most shooters to take a quartering target is to use the "intercept method". The intercept is really a combination of swing-Through and maintained lead, with the exception the muzzle starts farther below the target line, as well as behind it. As your muzzle intercepts the line at your chosen break point, it will be in the right place so pull the trigger"
As I posted above this is the favoured method here in the UK, just different terminology, but it depends on speed and angle.

The worst place to be on fast quartering targets is holding on the line and chasing from behind. Meaning that swing through often becomes slash through causing rushing of the target and over leading due to excessive gun speed.
Trickster wrote:
JerseyJim wrote:
I found Mike McAlpines' article on Shotgun Sports Mag, It is pre-2017. Here is the quote.

"the best way for most shooters to take a quartering target is to use the "intercept method". The intercept is really a combination of swing-Through and maintained lead, with the exception the muzzle starts farther below the target line, as well as behind it. As your muzzle intercepts the line at your chosen break point, it will be in the right place so pull the trigger"
As I posted above this is the favoured method here in the UK, just different terminology, but it depends on speed and angle.

The worst place to be on fast quartering targets is holding on the line and chasing from behind. Meaning that swing through often becomes slash through causing rushing of the target and over leading due to excessive gun speed.



You nailed it for me. That EXACTLY what has been happening. Thank You & Cheers

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 Post subject: Re: How to shoot a 40 yard quartering crosser?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:43 am 
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JerseyJim wrote:
You nailed it for me. That EXACTLY what has been happening. Thank You & Cheers
Happy to help Jim, but I'm only passing on what I was taught ages ago.
The most common mistake on true quartering clays is to start the gun too far back toward the trap, and that's just as true for slow ones as it is for fast ones.

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 Post subject: Re: How to shoot a 40 yard quartering crosser?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:01 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:20 pm
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JerseyJim wrote:
moishepipick wrote:
drawdc wrote:
Too bad you are wrong. I understand exactly what he said. And I have already quoted it to you. But you refuse to understand it. In plain English he said you cannot swing fast enough to hit a 40 yard/40 mph crosser without applying additional lead. You can fight it all you want, but it is in black and white. Sorry that the truth is inconvenient. But if you give yourself up to it, you will become a better shooter.
Attachment:
Brister_1.png


This the first I have heard of Brister. Is the book a valuable read? AND can you please clarify his statement about “you cannot swing fast enough..... “
Does it mean swing fast and furiously and get way out in front of the target? Thanks

It means swing fast and pull the trigger exactly as you pass the target not after you are in front of it.

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 Post subject: Re: How to shoot a 40 yard quartering crosser?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:40 pm 
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This the first I have heard of Brister. Is the book a valuable read? AND can you please clarify his statement about “you cannot swing fast enough..... “
Does it mean swing fast and furiously and get way out in front of the target? Thanks[/quote][/quote]
It means swing fast and pull the trigger exactly as you pass the target not after you are in front of it.[/quote]

You’re not worth arguing with.


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 Post subject: Re: How to shoot a 40 yard quartering crosser?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:58 am 
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I'm not sure what qualifies Mr Brister to teach modern clay shooting techniques so I'll respectfully disagree and throw in my 2 pennyworth by saying that swing through seems to me to be more about timing the shot rather than seeing the target or the gap. This isn't a problem on slow targets where can be the best option, but with swing through, timing becomes ever more critical as target transitioning speeds increase, resulting almost inevitably in loss of consistency.

And that's an example of why we need other methods in our toolbox such as discussed above.

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 Post subject: Re: How to shoot a 40 yard quartering crosser?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:22 am 
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Trickster wrote:
The most common way in the UK to shoot targets like this is by holding fairly well out but below the line and triangulating to the kill point.

Most avoid swinging through along the line as it often results in over leading - except on slow targets. On super fast quartering, maintained can work too.


Yep, Intercept. Fowler big on this.


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 Post subject: Re: How to shoot a 40 yard quartering crosser?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:50 am 
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drawdc wrote:
JerseyJim wrote:
I found Mike McAlpines' article on Shotgun Sports Mag, It is pre-2017. Here is the quote.

"the best way for most shooters to take a quartering target is to use the "intercept method". The intercept is really a combination of swing-Through and maintained lead, with the exception the muzzle starts farther below the target line, as well as behind it. As your muzzle intercepts the line at your chosen break point, it will be in the right place so pull the trigger"

I drew a rectangle and put the line in it for a visual


That is an excellent description.


Had this target at a shoot this weekend and used this method, broke every one of them!

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 Post subject: Re: How to shoot a 40 yard quartering crosser?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:09 pm 
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Like he said ... it's hard to get ahead of a 40 yard crosser. Every time you miss the solution is to add more lead. {F*

NRA Life and Benefactor
U.S. Navy carrier flight crew - Viet Nam

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 Post subject: Re: How to shoot a 40 yard quartering crosser?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:29 pm 
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Piece of cake -- just be on the proper line at the correct lead while using enough choke and it will break.

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When the mind is right, the body will find a way...


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 Post subject: Re: How to shoot a 40 yard quartering crosser?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:27 pm 
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JacksBack wrote:
Piece of cake -- just be on the proper line at the correct lead while using enough choke and it will break.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :mrgreen:




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