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 Post subject: Shotshell Target Loads
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:47 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:28 pm
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I'm in need of target loads for shooting trap. Who makes decent ammo?




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 Post subject: Re: Shotshell Target Loads
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:49 pm 
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Location: The wilds of rural central California
Pretty much everyone at this point. Find it, buy it.

tp

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12/30" Browning Citori CX White
12/26" Franchi Affinity 3
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 Post subject: Re: Shotshell Target Loads
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:01 pm 
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^^^^^^

I know people want it to be more complicated, but it isn’t. Don’t focus on brand. Focus on your desired load weight, shot size, and velocity. That is all that matters.

Oh, and price. Don’t forget price.

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 Post subject: Re: Shotshell Target Loads
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:03 pm 
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Location: The wilds of rural central California
Look for 1 ounce loads of #8 at ~1225fps. They'll do anything you want without a buncha drama. It's my go-to load hot off the 9000GN. Otherwise, shoot what you can find these days. This is not a point in time to be picky.

tp

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RM, NRA/USCCA RSO, NSSF, and a bunch of other acronyms.
12/30" Browning Citori CX White
12/26" Franchi Affinity 3
12/26" ATI Cavalry (hey, it shoots...usually)


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 Post subject: Re: Shotshell Target Loads
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:31 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:28 pm
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Found Remington 1 1/8 oz #8 for $40 a case. Took 2 boxes.


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 Post subject: Re: Shotshell Target Loads
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:27 pm 
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Location: The wilds of rural central California
joed49 wrote:
Found Remington 1 1/8 oz #8 for $40 a case. Took 2 boxes.

Score!
Jeez, I'd-a bought all they had. Well done, sir!

tp

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RM, NRA/USCCA RSO, NSSF, and a bunch of other acronyms.
12/30" Browning Citori CX White
12/26" Franchi Affinity 3
12/26" ATI Cavalry (hey, it shoots...usually)


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 Post subject: Re: Shotshell Target Loads
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:50 am 
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Posts: 11
They had 4 boxes but someone else beat me to 2 of them. I'd have taken all 4 at the price they were selling.

It was a local VFW that has turkey shoots on the weekend. They recently switched from #8 shot to #9 so sold off all the remaining #8.


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 Post subject: Re: Shotshell Target Loads
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:17 am 
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The price reflects the quality. Promo loads from Gun Clubs to Estates to Top Guns sold in the discount stores perform well enough for the 16 yard line and shallow handicap. Move back to longer yardage and find a major difference in using premium loads that have hard shot inside. Doesn't matter the speed or pay load, 7/8oz to 1 1/8oz ammo with quality hard shot out performs loads with foreign made or soft lead. This is easily proven on the pattern board and the way targets break.

By the way......Federal Top guns have better quality shot than all the other promo loads. Not premium quality, but better hardness and performance than foreign.

Evaluate load performance from the 27 yard line not 16 yard line. Shooting junk, add choke.

Maltz

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 Post subject: Re: Shotshell Target Loads
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:53 am 
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maltzahn wrote:
The price reflects the quality. Promo loads from Gun Clubs to Estates to Top Guns sold in the discount stores perform well enough for the 16 yard line and shallow handicap. Move back to longer yardage and find a major difference in using premium loads that have hard shot inside. Doesn't matter the speed or pay load, 7/8oz to 1 1/8oz ammo with quality hard shot out performs loads with foreign made or soft lead. This is easily proven on the pattern board and the way targets break.

By the way......Federal Top guns have better quality shot than all the other promo loads. Not premium quality, but better hardness and performance than foreign.

Evaluate load performance from the 27 yard line not 16 yard line. Shooting junk, add choke.

Maltz

If I am not mistaken, you are postulating that even if hard and soft pellets have their patterns normalized by choke selection, the soft pellets will not break targets as effectively as the hard pellets, all else like pellet velocity and load weight or perhaps preferably pellet count being equal. While Dr. Jones examined the effect of pellet energy on clay target breaks, I cannot find any mention by him of a study of pellet hardness having any effect on the probability of an individual pellet strike being effective. Do you have any data relating to this question to share with us?

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 Post subject: Re: Shotshell Target Loads
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:28 am 
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Joed--you (and I ) will never be good enough to know a "good" pellet from a "bad" one.

A "hard" pellet hardened from more antimony is LIGHTER than one w/ less antimony. To even design a test to be somewhat predictive has yet to happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Shotshell Target Loads
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:37 am 
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^yep! If all this angst over crappy pellets was put toward learning how to center a target with said crappy pellets......well, scores would be much better, and there would be far fewer ‘crappy pellets’ in the world. See how that works?


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 Post subject: Re: Shotshell Target Loads
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:47 am 
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sera wrote:
Joed--you (and I ) will never be good enough to know a "good" pellet from a "bad" one.

A "hard" pellet hardened from more antimony is LIGHTER than one w/ less antimony. To even design a test to be somewhat predictive has yet to happen.

Yes, due to lower energy at the same speed, a lighter harder pellet (2-3%) is actually handicapped compared to a softer, heavier pellet. I doubt the difference is readily observable.

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 Post subject: Re: Shotshell Target Loads
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:48 am 
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Rooster booster wrote:
^yep! If all this angst over crappy pellets was put toward learning how to center a target with said crappy pellets......well, scores would be much better, and there would be far fewer ‘crappy pellets’ in the world. See how that works?

You hit the nail right on the head.

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 Post subject: Re: Shotshell Target Loads
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:37 pm 
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Here's a novel concept :)
Use what fits your budget
Use the payload you prefer
use the FPS you prefer
And the last one is----------what ever brand you have confidence in.

Also learning to shoot will cure MANY concerns about what shell/choke to use :wink:


Easy Peasy :wink: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Shotshell Target Loads
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:27 pm 
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hopper810 wrote:
Here's a novel concept :)
Use what fits your budget
Use the payload you prefer
use the FPS you prefer
And the last one is----------what ever brand you have confidence in.

Also learning to shoot will cure MANY concerns about what shell/choke to use :wink:


Easy Peasy :wink: :lol:

Another sensible reply.

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 Post subject: Re: Shotshell Target Loads
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:55 am 
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WTF......I guess the 9.00 a box for premium ammo is waisted spending compared to 5.00 promo ammo. From the great studies of "DOCTOR" A. C. Jones. Most of us think Jones is a BS artist trying to sell books with great self-important arrogance.

Thereto, His shooting accomplishments? Can Jones apply His vast knowledge and scientific expertise to effectively win world shooting titles? Shoot for big Calcutta money. Eh! Anything but snake oil? Didn't think so.

Listen to good shooters. Pay for a clinic from a All American. Order instructional tape from a world class shooter with life long accomplishment. Real value is in self improvement and info that can be applied to personal success.

Maltz

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 Post subject: Re: Shotshell Target Loads
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:56 am 
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maltzahn wrote:
WTF......I guess the 9.00 a box for premium ammo is waisted spending compared to 5.00 promo ammo. From the great studies of "DOCTOR" A. C. Jones. Most of us think Jones is a BS artist trying to sell books with great self-important arrogance.

Thereto, His shooting accomplishments? Can Jones apply His vast knowledge and scientific expertise to effectively win world shooting titles? Shoot for big Calcutta money. Eh! Anything but snake oil? Didn't think so.

Listen to good shooters. Pay for a clinic from a All American. Order instructional tape from a world class shooter with life long accomplishment. Real value is in self improvement and info that can be applied to personal success.

Maltz

Oh, give it a rest. There is that old canard again about only shooting champs having the right to an opinion about anything having to do with shooting shotguns. As if championship shooting has anything to do with scientific testing of ammunition, guns, chokes, etc. What BS. Jones has produced a brilliant treatise that finally elucidates numerous questions of shooting phenomena. You can’t stand it because it blows holes in your precious shooting mythology that postulates spending more is always necessary.

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 Post subject: Re: Shotshell Target Loads
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:16 am 
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Lets see, a wonderment. Do I want to shoot well, gaining real respect among shooting friends and competitors. As well as awards and help pay for the cost of participation. Or....... try to impress less than average shooters with vast knowledge of irrelevant and suspect science that doesn't work or help with shooting better scores.

So you have 60 bucks to spend. Choice is a boring book full of suspect dribble or order a video from a world class shooter offering detailed help for improving your shooting game.

You decide. It was easy for me. I shoot a lot of clay targets. Shoot well above average and know how I got there. Do not find any entertainment discussing irrelevant information. Do find information like shot hardness, powder burn rates, shot cup performance, reloading detail, pattern testing and similar of great importance. All statistics that make a difference in actual scores and averages. With the simple goal of hitting every target presentation with more than 6 pellets.

Maltz

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 Post subject: Re: Shotshell Target Loads
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:07 pm 
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maltzahn wrote:
Lets see, a wonderment. Do I want to shoot well, gaining real respect among shooting friends and competitors. As well as awards and help pay for the cost of participation. Or....... try to impress less than average shooters with vast knowledge of irrelevant and suspect science that doesn't work or help with shooting better scores.

So you have 60 bucks to spend. Choice is a boring book full of suspect dribble or order a video from a world class shooter offering detailed help for improving your shooting game.

You decide. It was easy for me. I shoot a lot of clay targets. Shoot well above average and know how I got there. Do not find any entertainment discussing irrelevant information. Do find information like shot hardness, powder burn rates, shot cup performance, reloading detail, pattern testing and similar of great importance. All statistics that make a difference in actual scores and averages. With the simple goal of hitting every target presentation with more than 6 pellets.

Maltz

The problem with your thought process and answer is it is not relevant to the question being discussed. Who cares how you like to spend your time when the issue is an AUTHORITATIVE perspective on the importance of shot hardness? For that and similar questions I will go to the scientist every time. For resource regarding shooting techniques we might be more in agreement.

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 Post subject: Re: Shotshell Target Loads
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:08 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:28 pm
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Interesting answers. I've never been a shotgun person as I mostly shot rifle or pistol. I even had a bullet casting business so I've dabbled in lead formulas.

Might be a silly question but isn't all shot the same? I'd have thought all shot was pure lead.

I guess I'll see how the Remington ammo works for me. I'm new to Trap and right now I need to practice.




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