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 Post subject: A recoil question just for the sake of knowing.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:59 am 
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wrfish mentioned in another thread that several days of shooting 200+ rounds took its toll on him wrt recoil. Perfectly understandable. Makes sense. My question to him and anyone else who would like to respond is this: if you ever find yourself in that situation, do you also feel any discomfort whatsoever on the way to the 200 rounds for several days, or is the cumulative effect the only discomfort you realize. In other words, if you are a person who will have trouble from recoil after shooting a lot of rounds, what about when you shoot any smaller number of rounds no matter how many or few? Are you feeling any level of discomfort with each shot right from the beginning or not? Or is the accumulation a total surprise?




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 Post subject: Re: A recoil question just for the sake of knowing.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:36 pm 
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Recoil is cumulative over a lifetime of shooting...and I no longer choose to be kicked any harder than what is the absolute minimum for my tolerance.

My solution is to steer away from fixed breech guns and only shoot the softest recoiling gas semi’s...such as heavy 12 ga. gas semi’s...or sub-gauge semi’s in 20, 28, or .410.

I still enjoy my trigger therapy and the gas guns allow me to indulge in lots of range time!


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 Post subject: Re: A recoil question just for the sake of knowing.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:09 pm 
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cleboje wrote:
Recoil is cumulative over a lifetime of shooting...and I no longer choose to be kicked any harder than what is the absolute minimum for my tolerance.

My solution is to steer away from fixed breech guns and only shoot the softest recoiling gas semi’s...such as heavy 12 ga. gas semi’s...or sub-gauge semi’s in 20, 28, or .410.

I still enjoy my trigger therapy and the gas guns allow me to indulge in lots of range time!


Personally, I can’t imagine a softer shooting 12 gauge with target loads than the Remington V3. But alas.......

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 Post subject: Re: A recoil question just for the sake of knowing.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:45 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:58 am
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Location: E Florida
I have reached the point that I try to avoid shooting two days in row, and then only shoot 7/8 at 1140 in a 8 lb 12ga OU.


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 Post subject: Re: A recoil question just for the sake of knowing.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 5:37 pm 
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Slimchance wrote:
I have reached the point that I try to avoid shooting two days in row, and then only shoot 7/8 at 1140 in a 8 lb 12ga OU.


7/8 ounce @ 1140 in a 12 gauge??? I'll bet that's a dirty shooting load, and likely wouldn't do well at all in cold weather. My experience with 7/8 ounce loads in 12 gauge is that they do best at about 1275 fps or more. At about 1250, they do OK. Below 1200 fps, pressure and velocity are very unpredictable and often disappointing. Low pressure, poor powder burn, poor performance... but the recoil is mild.

If that's what I wanted to shoot on a regular basis, I'd find a 20 gauge which would be much more suited to that load/velocity combination and would undoubtedly perform better under all conditions due to the higher pressure, better powder ignition, and better powder burn.

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 Post subject: Re: A recoil question just for the sake of knowing.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 6:02 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:58 am
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Location: E Florida
The manufacturer of that load is Baschieri and
Pellagri (B+D)in their competition one, correction on the speed 1160, I suspect they know a little about making shotgun shells.


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 Post subject: Re: A recoil question just for the sake of knowing.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:40 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:10 pm
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Location: Middletown, DE
I am fortunate to not be extremely sensitive to felt recoil. For me, that means it is only when I reach the mental and muscular limit that things start to degrade. I shoot exclusively 1oz 1250fps 12ga loads in competition. That is true for over/under, semiauto, pump, and SxS. Subgauges would be 1/2-7/8oz at 1200-1250fps.

We can easily shoot at 300-400 targets on the big weekends around here. I start feeling the mental fatigue usually around 250 targets. The physical fatigue sets in around 300 targets.

What I notice is that when my mental focus fades and my arms/back get tired, I tend to get a little sloppy on the gun mount. This is when I also start perceiving a recoil issue.

We are weekend warrior tournament shooters that tend to shoot more registered than practice. Perhaps a better training regimen would tighten things up a bit!

Some brands of ammunition cause me more issues than others for felt recoil. I think it is due to the time evolution of the impulse.


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 Post subject: Re: A recoil question just for the sake of knowing.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 10:35 pm 
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Ulysses wrote:
7/8 ounce @ 1140 in a 12 gauge??? I'll bet that's a dirty shooting load, and likely wouldn't do well at all in cold weather.


And thats why I like the 1200 fps 7/8 oz. Vectan loads. I shoot them all year long here.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: A recoil question just for the sake of knowing.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 7:48 am 
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Thanks twfran for being the only person so far to address the question I asked in the initial post.

Let me try again. Those of you who notice discomfort (not fatigue) build up over a few consecutive days of high volume shooting, do you or do you not feel any discomfort on each and every shot starting right at the beginning? Put another way, are you perfectly comfortable at first and notice pain only much later in the marathon process?

This is not a difficult question.


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 Post subject: Re: A recoil question just for the sake of knowing.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 7:55 am 
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yes

no

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 Post subject: Re: A recoil question just for the sake of knowing.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:10 am 
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I feel it from the first shot.

I do not shoot 200 rounds in a day.


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 Post subject: Re: A recoil question just for the sake of knowing.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:21 am 
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My reaction to the recoil depends on just how heavy and how "hot" the load is. If the load is only a little bit heavy in recoil, then it takes perhaps 75 shots for me to feel the cumulative effect of the recoil.

However, if the load is really hot and heavy, I feel it from the very first shot and it just gets worse the longer I shoot.

Does this help answer your question?

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 Post subject: Re: A recoil question just for the sake of knowing.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:50 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:26 pm
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I receive a wake up at the first shot. I then get used to it until I start to shoot too much, which is usually followed by a headache. Never have had shoulder pain, just head aches.


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 Post subject: Re: A recoil question just for the sake of knowing.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:00 am 
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I rarely feel physical discomfort from shooting unless I mount the gun not quite right or the stock slips a little on an extreme angle shot like a high overhead. Typically I can shoot 200 hundred targets and on occasion 300 on a hectic tournament day and not feel physically hurt by it.

Fatigue both physical and mental is a different story. Especially in warm weather. I feel best in the morning and often if there is a break in the action for a lunch or just the way event schedule falls I have some issues with fatigue later in the day.

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 Post subject: Re: A recoil question just for the sake of knowing.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:22 am 
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I don't notice any discomfort at all on the 1st or 200th shot. I shoot 1oz @ 1225fps, very soft.
I've shot 200 in an hour a few times, fatigue sets in, but not any discomfort.

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 Post subject: Re: A recoil question just for the sake of knowing.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:18 pm 
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Thanks for those answers.


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 Post subject: Re: A recoil question just for the sake of knowing.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:10 am 
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That is why some shooters only shoot 20 gauge with tubes in their 12 gauge shootguns.

I have a barrel weight on my gun as the heavier the gun the less recoil. I also have a recoil reducer on my gun's stock.

Both the weight and reducer really help. Also, I usually shoot 1 oz. loads.

Randy

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 Post subject: Re: A recoil question just for the sake of knowing.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:17 am 
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I'm a 300 a day shooter. Register trap, common day is 100 singles, 100 caps, 100 doubles. some weeks I shoot 6 days in a row at big tournaments. All loads are 1 1/8th oz.

Have registered over 100,000 singles , just short of 100,000 caps, and 50,000 doubles and probably doubled that in non-registered targets. 500,000 targets

I know recoil and have had to go to a release trigger to continue shooting. Also went to a PFS stock to address recoil and have tried every recoil management gimmick ever made. Also studied all text on gun fitting written. Have added weight to all my Krieghoff K-80's and know how to balance my guns for each discipline. Balance is personal for handling and center mass for recoil.

If your addressing recoil at whatever level of shooting sports, start with gun fit. Reducing payload is effective at reducing recoil, but also reflects on scores. Some shooters reduce payload to save money on reloading and that also reflects on scores. Saving money must be more important that adding targets to average or beating your friends on the clay field. Your choice.

Recoil will eventually get you and your subconscious. If you do not address it, my outline of effect is written above.

Maltz

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 Post subject: Re: A recoil question just for the sake of knowing.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:02 pm 
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maltzahn wrote:
I'm a 300 a day shooter. Register trap, common day is 100 singles, 100 caps, 100 doubles. some weeks I shoot 6 days in a row at big tournaments. All loads are 1 1/8th oz.

Have registered over 100,000 singles , just short of 100,000 caps, and 50,000 doubles and probably doubled that in non-registered targets. 500,000 targets

I know recoil and have had to go to a release trigger to continue shooting. Also went to a PFS stock to address recoil and have tried every recoil management gimmick ever made. Also studied all text on gun fitting written. Have added weight to all my Krieghoff K-80's and know how to balance my guns for each discipline. Balance is personal for handling and center mass for recoil.

If your addressing recoil at whatever level of shooting sports, start with gun fit. Reducing payload is effective at reducing recoil, but also reflects on scores. Some shooters reduce payload to save money on reloading and that also reflects on scores. Saving money must be more important that adding targets to average or beating your friends on the clay field. Your choice.

Recoil will eventually get you and your subconscious. If you do not address it, my outline of effect is written above.

Maltz


I'm not a trap shooter, so I can't argue with your premise that 1 ounce loads will decrease your scores. That is definitely not true for skeet and there are 10 or so pages on the sporting clays forum about whether it is true for sporting. If you have had to go to a release trigger and recoil reducing stocks like the PFS it sounds like you have struggled to deal with the issue and don't have a real answer. Nothing wrong with either solution, but did it fix the problem? I'll take a competent shooter that has solved his issues and may be shooting 1 ounce loads over a flinchy shooter with 1 1/8th ounce loads every day.

The misnomer in all this recoil conversation is that the only effect of excess recoil is pain. Factors like increasing tension and/or fatigue during a shooting session kind of get ignored. Just because you don't noticeably flinch or feel discomfort doesn't mean it isn't taking it's toll.


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 Post subject: Re: A recoil question just for the sake of knowing.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:58 pm 
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when I used to shoot 1.125 oz at 1250 , I could feel it around 75 shells. Now 1 oz at 1200 , I don't feel recoil at all.



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