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 Post subject: Re: skeet hold
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:48 am 
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Location: Kansas
Sustained lead and pass and shoot are both effective. Pick the one that you like the best. Both are shot by champions



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"We pulled the trigger, the safety went forward, both barrels fired almost together, the gun opened, ejectors kicked the fired cases over our shoulder ...the most completely automatic gun we ever fired" Elmer Keith- Shotguns by Keith


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 Post subject: Re: skeet hold
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:27 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:17 am
Posts: 888
JoeCool wrote:

Everyone one knows you have to shoot below station one high house.
In fact though, station two is not that much different. The bird is still coming
out from way above you, traveling almost horizantal, and from the
shooter viewpoint, from below it is actually declining just like station
one is.

I call BS on this. The target leaves the high house 10 feet in the air. It reaches the crossing point 15 ft in the air. No matter how you slice it, that target is rising. And, if you break the target before it gets to the crossing point you will be shooting a rising target and it LOOKS like a rising target. Now, I will agree that many targets are missed at station 2 by shooting over them, but NOT because it is a descending target.


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 Post subject: Re: skeet hold
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:48 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:56 pm
Posts: 1504
Vette Jockey2 wrote:
JoeCool wrote:

Everyone one knows you have to shoot below station one high house.
In fact though, station two is not that much different. The bird is still coming
out from way above you, traveling almost horizantal, and from the
shooter viewpoint, from below it is actually declining just like station
one is.

I call BS on this. The target leaves the high house 10 feet in the air. It reaches the crossing point 15 ft in the air. No matter how you slice it, that target is rising. And, if you break the target before it gets to the crossing point you will be shooting a rising target and it LOOKS like a rising target. Now, I will agree that many targets are missed at station 2 by shooting over them, but NOT because it is a descending target.

You can call BS on it all you like. It is still a descending target from the shooters view point. Anytime you have to lead under a target it is a descending target from the shooters view point even if the target is actually rising. Station one high house is the perfect example. It is rising slightly but to get in front of it, you have to shoot under it, with the gun pointing under it you are leading about 3 feet in front of it, and it looks for all the world to the shooter that the target is going down. Another example is a sporting target that comes from behind and way above you. It can actually be rising but from shooters perspective he has to shooter under it, and it appears to be descending even while ascending.

I actually learned this from a man of high credentials. He was the one who taught Matt Dryke, who won the Olympic skeet event in Los Angeles way back some time. That instructor was his dad, Chuck Dryke. Yep, he is the one who taught me to shoot station 2 high house, many years ago. I had trouble with the shot, in fact it was my hardest skeet shot at the time. As soon as I started shooting under it, about a 4 O'clock lead, I started smoking the target and it became an easy shot.

If you think about it, you can figure out what I said is true. But you have to think. You have to know the difference in what the target is doing and what it appears to be doing to the shooter.


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 Post subject: Re: skeet hold
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:09 am 
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Location: Sag Harbor, New York
I set up with my body angled so that I am comfortable with the gun facing the center stake. Them I move back halfway to the house and like casonet, I am a swing through shooter on station 2. Works for me.

We allow doubles at station 8 at my home club, but I usually do not shoot them.

Bob

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New York, New York & Sag Harbor, New York


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 Post subject: Re: skeet hold
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:12 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:33 pm
Posts: 6679
Location: Mascoutah IL
Vette Jockey2 wrote:
JoeCool wrote:

Everyone one knows you have to shoot below station one high house.
In fact though, station two is not that much different. The bird is still coming
out from way above you, traveling almost horizantal, and from the
shooter viewpoint, from below it is actually declining just like station
one is.

I call BS on this.

Me too. It's not descending target from any perspective unless you are shooting it after the center stake.


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 Post subject: Re: skeet hold
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:45 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:28 pm
Posts: 1193
Location: Skeet and Trap Fields
Vette Jockey2 is correct on this. Unless 2H is shot at well after the center state, it is not a falling target. Your analogy of 1H proving that it is a falling target as it leaves the house because we have to shoot under 1H, is not correct. The reason we have to point our shotguns under the rising 1H target is a matter of geometry. The target is above us, going away and slightly rising. Since we are not directly behind the target, in line with the flight of the target, if we were to shoot directly at the target, we wouldn't be shooting above it, but we actually shoot behind it. If you could shoot at 1H from the high house window there would be no need to point your shotgun under the target. You can see this if you draw yourself a graphic of an overhead target and a shot having to intersect it coming from behind and under the target. To intersect the target we have to get our shot out in front of the target to intersect it, where it is going to be. Since we are below the target we do that by pointing under it in order to get our shot to intersect the target. By aiming under the target from our perspective, we are actually pointing in front of the target.

See the graphics in the links below and you will understand what I'm talking about. The graphic for Station 1 H show how aiming below the target is used to intersect the rising target. The graphic for Station 2 H shows the aim point fairly level with the flight of the target at the center stake (the preferred break point)>

https://www.leveragegame.com/Skeet/Stat ... 68x422.jpg

https://www.leveragegame.com/Skeet/Stat ... 68x420.jpg


Last edited by twohigh on Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: skeet hold
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:50 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:56 pm
Posts: 1504
Like I said,
Quote:
If you think about it, you can figure out what I said is true.
But you have to think. You have to know the difference in what
the target is doing and what it appears to be doing to the shooter.



If you can't see it, you just are not thinking.

There is a transition from station one to station two.
Station one, from the shooter perspective it is a falling
target, because it goes from the top of his vision to
the bottom of his vision as he looks at it through it's
entire flight. This is because it starts out above his
vision point.

If you go to a point about halfway between station one
and two, the path of the target changes from going
straight above you to straight down in your vision, a
descending target. It now goes from above and slightly
left of you and it goes down and right until it hits the ground.
To hit this target you it is mostly going down and slightly
right. You need a 5 O'clock hold to hit it.

Now move to station two, and the target goes from
above and left to the right and down throughout it's
flight IN YOUR FIELD OF VISION. Now the target is
moving mostly to the right and just slightly lower in your
field of view as it travels. If you take a video of it from
about 5 feet above the ground, you will see the path
of the target is down from your point of reference
until the clay hits the ground. The camera does not lie, it
shows exactly the flight path from start to finish,
and it is descending, in that it goes from top of
frame downward. To hit this target, it is mostly
going left to right with just a small amount downward.
Your hold here is 4 O'clock, even if you shoot it before
the center stake.

You know what really irritates me? I don't mind so
much people not being smart enough to understand
what I am saying. The thing that irritates me,
is goofygoober, the original poster, is not going
to be back, in all probability. He had 4 posts today.
He is not going to try anything I or you said, he
is just gone, more than likely. Here we are
discussing his problem, and we can't say, "Okay
goofygoober, did you find any of this helpful?"
No, he is just gone.


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 Post subject: Re: skeet hold
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:10 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:11 pm
Posts: 1052
No he probably won’t be back , can you blame him ? The important part is , he can take any of the information from one of these post’s and use it as a starting point for HIM. The rest of his progression is up to HIS insight.


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 Post subject: Re: skeet hold
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:46 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:56 pm
Posts: 1504
captjsjr wrote:
No he probably won’t be back , can you blame him ? The important part is , he can take any of the information from one of these post’s and use it as a starting point for HIM. The rest of his progression is up to HIS insight.

I guess that is the way it is, and probably the way it should be. We all gave it our efforts and arguments to answer it as we understand it, so time to move on.




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