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 Post subject: Question: O/U Finger to Trigger Fit for New Gun
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:04 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:17 am
Posts: 42
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Hello, I have the opportunity to buy a Browning Cynergy Satin Field Model. The gun seems to fit very well (length wise) in that I can mount it well and the sight picture along the rib is great and repeatable.

However, I noticed that my trigger finger falls naturally to the very front of the guard; a long way away from the trigger. I really have to manipulate my arm to get my finger to the trigger. No good.

My questions:
1. Can the gun be fitted after the fact to correct this and have my finger fall where it should?
2. If so, what do you think needs to be changed?
3. What might it cost, and can any Smith do this work, or is this a little complex?
4. Should I pass on this gun altogether?

Many thanks in advance from a newbie skeet shooter!




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 Post subject: Re: Question: O/U Finger to Trigger Fit for New Gun
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 5:37 am 
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Location: Sumterville, FL
Has someone cut the stock down? Measure from the face of the trigger to the middle of the recoil pad; should be approximately 14 1/4". If it's significantly less than that, it's been cut down for a small statured shooter. Other possibility, being that it's a Cynergy, it may be missing the standard length recoil pad and has a short one installed.

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 Post subject: Re: Question: O/U Finger to Trigger Fit for New Gun
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 5:37 am 
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BTW, welcome to Shotgun World!

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 Post subject: Re: Question: O/U Finger to Trigger Fit for New Gun
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:05 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:17 am
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Location: Santa Barbara, CA
The stock has not been cut down. It is new, and has the factory inflex pad (about 1/2 inch thick). It is a full framed gun.

Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Question: O/U Finger to Trigger Fit for New Gun
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:24 am 
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Try taking the pad off and see how/if that helps with the problem.Or try a slip on pad to lengthen the LOP and see what that does.

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 Post subject: Re: Question: O/U Finger to Trigger Fit for New Gun
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:46 pm 
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Can you slide your hand down on the grip to move your trigger finger back? If you can and you do, will your thumb still extend over the top of the grip to securely hold the grip?

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Author of "Stock Fitter's Bible, Second Edition," which explains the interrelationships between shooting form, stock dimensions and a shooter's size and shape http://www.amazon.com/Stock-Fitters-Bible-Second-Edition/dp/1451570384


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 Post subject: Re: Question: O/U Finger to Trigger Fit for New Gun
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:42 pm 
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Location: New Hill, North Carolina
SBSkeet;
You have made a great observation that most shooters don't even notice.
The fit of the grip is quite important. This is not an LOP adustment but a grip radius concern.
As I recall the Cynergy has an adjustable trigger just like the Citori, this adjustment is for the size of the hand and is very useful.

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 Post subject: Re: Question: O/U Finger to Trigger Fit for New Gun
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:21 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:21 pm
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Location: Long Island NY
Not to hijack this thread, but Rollin, what happened to your website?


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 Post subject: Re: Question: O/U Finger to Trigger Fit for New Gun
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:53 pm 
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Azraz wrote:
Not to hijack this thread, but Rollin, what happened to your website?


It had too few visitors to warrant investing $300 to keep it up.

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Author of "Stock Fitter's Bible, Second Edition," which explains the interrelationships between shooting form, stock dimensions and a shooter's size and shape http://www.amazon.com/Stock-Fitters-Bible-Second-Edition/dp/1451570384


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 Post subject: Re: Question: O/U Finger to Trigger Fit for New Gun
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 12:55 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:17 am
Posts: 42
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
cfoster wrote:
SBSkeet;
You have made a great observation that most shooters don't even notice.
The fit of the grip is quite important. This is not an LOP adustment but a grip radius concern.
As I recall the Cynergy has an adjustable trigger just like the Citori, this adjustment is for the size of the hand and is very useful.


I am not sure if it does have an adjustable trigger, I will have to check. It is the bottom of the line. Let's assume it does not, what other ways can I solve this "grip radius concern?"

BTW, thanks for noticing and acknowledging my observational skills. I can't hit anything I shoot at, but boy do I observe some good stuff BEFORE I pull the trigger.


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 Post subject: Re: Question: O/U Finger to Trigger Fit for New Gun
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 1:06 am 
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SBSkeet wrote:
4. Should I pass on this gun altogether?

Many thanks in advance from a newbie skeet shooter!


Probably, although I'm sure exactly what you are trying to say.

No, that model does not have an adjustable trigger.

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 Post subject: Re: Question: O/U Finger to Trigger Fit for New Gun
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:05 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:17 am
Posts: 42
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Randy Wakeman

Question for you, good sir:

This is a gun I am very interested in buying.
Beretta 686 SP1 Sporting S/N V16776S 30" "OB" style choke MFG 2012. Yes, the stock has been cut down to 14.0" LOP with Kick-Ezz 5/8" pad; have another Kick-Ezz to make it 14.375". Has about 5K rounds and locks up tight like new. Browning's just seem to fit me better. $1500.00 OBO.


I think the price is in the ballpark. I have seen pictures and it is in very good condition. My only concern is that the LOP will be too short, given that the stock has been cut.

I do not know if it is a red flag that 398 people have looked at the post and only 2 replied.

I am 6'1" and have 34 inch arms in a dress shirt.

Your thoughts, good or bad?- potentially including "Don't buy it, and here is why." Open to all coaching.


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 Post subject: Re: Question: O/U Finger to Trigger Fit for New Gun
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:51 am 
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I am not Randy, but until he arrives...

I'm confident that Randy will agree that at your height, a 14" LOP will be considerably too short for you. This is even more so if you shoot a shotgun like a rifle with your stance rotated more than 45 degrees.

With a rotated stance a considerably longer LOP is required because your shoulder is farther back from your cheekbone, which "hangs" on the comb.

It is better if the stance is rotated less than 45 degrees; 30 degrees is even better if the width of the shoulders is such that the cast (if any) on the stock is adequate so the head does not need to be leaned toward the stock to align the eye with the rib.

Something else to consider: With your height and the assumed normal neck length of someone of that height, you probably need to lean your neck forward and lower your cheek down to the comb. This may even be necessary if you mount your gun with as much as 1" of the recoil pad extending above your collarbone. (This if fine if it helps return your neck to a normal, erect posture.

As you can see, stock dimensions, LOP and drop at the heel for example, affects how you shoot - the shooting form that you are able to use. That in turn, will affect the success you will have shooting any particular gun.

I suggest that you consider a gun with an LOP of "about 14.75" (depending on the height of your gun mount, the rotation of your stance and the length of your neck). These considerations suggest that it would be beneficial if you were to visit a good stock fitter, that is, if you are interested in improving your shooting skills to your potential. He would show you a good shooting form (stance, gun mount, weight distribution, head/neck/body posture) and then alter the necessary stock dimensions so you could use it.

If you shoot only occasionally and only "for fun," disregard most of what I have written.

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Rollin

Author of "Stock Fitter's Bible, Second Edition," which explains the interrelationships between shooting form, stock dimensions and a shooter's size and shape http://www.amazon.com/Stock-Fitters-Bible-Second-Edition/dp/1451570384


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 Post subject: Re: Question: O/U Finger to Trigger Fit for New Gun
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 11:14 am 
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SBSkeet wrote:
Randy Wakeman

Question for you, good sir:

This is a gun I am very interested in buying.
Beretta 686 SP1 Sporting S/N V16776S 30" "OB" style choke MFG 2012. Yes, the stock has been cut down to 14.0" LOP with Kick-Ezz 5/8" pad; have another Kick-Ezz to make it 14.375". Has about 5K rounds and locks up tight like new. Browning's just seem to fit me better. $1500.00 OBO.


I think the price is in the ballpark. I have seen pictures and it is in very good condition. My only concern is that the LOP will be too short, given that the stock has been cut.


Yes, the stock likely is too short and I'd pass on it myself. If a 686 Sporting fits you, you can add the price of a new stock to the "$1500 OBO" and it may not look like any bargain.

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 Post subject: Re: Question: O/U Finger to Trigger Fit for New Gun
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:37 pm 
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Take a look at this: The stock could be lengthened and lowered, if necessary.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/436602 ... d-shotguns

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Rollin

Author of "Stock Fitter's Bible, Second Edition," which explains the interrelationships between shooting form, stock dimensions and a shooter's size and shape http://www.amazon.com/Stock-Fitters-Bible-Second-Edition/dp/1451570384


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 Post subject: Re: Question: O/U Finger to Trigger Fit for New Gun
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:18 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:17 am
Posts: 42
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Thanks to you both, Rollin and Randy; I appreciate your input very much.

Additional Question: Should I go see a fitter before I purchase, or after? The are so many damn dimensions to keep track of...

Bottom line for this thread, I think I will pass on this gun. One reason is that even if the adjustable Gracoil Rollin had me look at at Midway would help with the fit, I just think they are ugly and I wouldn't want to taint the look of a beautiful gun with it. Obviously no offense to you Rollin; I am just very specific on the aesthetics of any gun I will buy.


Last edited by SBSkeet on Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Question: O/U Finger to Trigger Fit for New Gun
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:07 pm 
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Location: Brillion, WI-25 mls S of Green Bay
See a fitter?

What are your height and weight? Maybe you do not need to see one at all.

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Rollin

Author of "Stock Fitter's Bible, Second Edition," which explains the interrelationships between shooting form, stock dimensions and a shooter's size and shape http://www.amazon.com/Stock-Fitters-Bible-Second-Edition/dp/1451570384


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 Post subject: Re: Question: O/U Finger to Trigger Fit for New Gun
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:45 am 
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SBSkeet wrote:
Additional Question: Should I go see a fitter before I purchase, or after? The are so many damn dimensions to keep track of...


The best bet is to shoot before you buy. I personally have always had better luck with guns that fit right, right out of the box or off the rack, than playing with shims, endless stock mods, etc.

It might be that all of your guns need to be fitted, if you are well away from the theoretical "average" shooter that most stocks are made for. It doesn't sound that you are, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Question: O/U Finger to Trigger Fit for New Gun
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 4:25 am 
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SBSkeet wrote:



My only concern is that the LOP will be too short, given that the stock has been cut.



https://kickeezproducts.com/recoil-pads/spacers/



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