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 Post subject: Difference in recoil between loads for very small guy
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:27 am 
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Hey guys first post here. About 4 months ago I got my first 12g, nothing fancy just a stoeger p3000 to get me into shooting. I was a little concerned about recoil being I am a really small guy I'm around 120 125 pounds(I know I need to gain some weight!) I am about 5' 7" so the stock fits decently. After shooting it my concerns over the recoil have gotten better with lighter loads. I have been shooting 1-1/8 #7 birdshot and am completely fine with that aside from a sore shoulder at the end of the day. At the time I couldn't get my hands on buckshot and now I was able to grab a box of wolf 2 3/4 00(can't find a weight). My question is how much more of a kick can I expect and do you guys think I'm going to have an issue shooting it? Maybe #4 buck would be a better option for me? Any advice for a new shotgunner would be great. Thanks!




Last edited by BradXIII on Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Difference in recoil between loads for very small guy
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:43 pm 
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I am not a small guy! I am however 67 years old and have been shooting shotguns since I was about 10 years old. I've shot hundreds of thousands of rounds, at all sorts of wild game and targets. I'm sure less than 100 rounds in 57 years were buckshot but that doesn't matter, one ounce of shot at a particular fps, is the same as the next. Gun fit has more to do with felt recoil than anything else. Millions of women, and children shoot competitively and are unaffected by recoil, because their guns fit them. Some turkey or goose hunt with 3.5" shells that may have 2 ounces of shot. Man up and learn why felt recoil can be managed.

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 Post subject: Re: Difference in recoil between loads for very small guy
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:58 pm 
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What are you using the gun for? You are talking about hunting loads, but I am still not sure what you are shooting and how many rounds you are shooting during a daily session. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Difference in recoil between loads for very small guy
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:15 pm 
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Thanks for the reply oldfarmer, appreciate the input. It's not so much being scared of the recoil. It's more about just wanting to know what to expect for larger loads for a smaller guy. This is not only my first shotgun but first gun. But I plan to man up and try this buckshot out next time I can.

rpenmanparker wrote:
What are you using the gun for? You are talking about hunting loads, but I am still not sure what you are shooting and how many rounds you are shooting during a daily session. Thanks.


The shotgun is primarily for home defense. I haven't gotten to shoot a whole lot yet but last time I went to the range I shot maybe like 50-60 rounds. It won't be for hunting but I would like to be able to shoot the loads I plan on keeping in the shotgun when at the range.


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 Post subject: Re: Difference in recoil between loads for very small guy
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:15 pm 
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The SIZE of the shot (or buckshot) has nothing to do with recoil. It's all about the WEIGHT and VELOCITY of the shot charge. Also, a heavier weight GUN is better at reducing felt recoil than a light weight gun.

I wouldn't worry about recoil for home defense loads since you're unlikely to shoot more than a few shots, and chances are that with the adrenalin that's pumping, you won't feel any recoil at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Difference in recoil between loads for very small guy
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:20 pm 
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Ulysses wrote:
The SIZE of the shot (or buckshot) has nothing to do with recoil. It's all about the WEIGHT and VELOCITY of the shot charge. Also, a heavier weight GUN is better at reducing felt recoil than a light weight gun.

I wouldn't worry about recoil for home defense loads since you're unlikely to shoot more than a few shots, and chances are that with the adrenalin that's pumping, you won't feel any recoil at all.

Except he is shooting his home defense loads for practice. So he is really getting beaten up.

I’m not sure that is necessary. Just load the gun for defense with the hard hitting rounds, but use clay games type rounds for practice, say 1 oz of 8 shot traveling at 1200 fps. If you ever have to shoot for self defense, the learnings from the practice will carry you through. You won’t care that the recoil is worse than you are used to for a couple or three shots. Unless you get involved in a domestic riot, you won’t likely shoot more than that.

Oh, and the clay target rounds will save you a bunch of money.

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Last edited by rpenmanparker on Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Difference in recoil between loads for very small guy
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:47 pm 
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I guess it makes sense it's the weight and velocity and not the size that matter, Newton's law and all. The wolf 00 is around 100fps more than my clay loads. Wish I could find a weight somewhere on the wolf stuff but I will throw that into the tube. I bought a case of light clay rounds that I've been shooting and it doesn't bother me much to shoot until the end of the day. I will keep practicing with those and shoot a few of the buckshot. Appreciate the help and suggestions.

Edit: looked it up and found out it's about 1 1/8 oz with 9 pellets. Didn't realize it was normal not to have a weight on buckshot.


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 Post subject: Re: Difference in recoil between loads for very small guy
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:46 pm 
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BradXIII wrote:
I guess it makes sense it's the weight and velocity and not the size that matter, Newton's law and all. The wolf 00 is around 100fps more than my clay loads. Wish I could find a weight somewhere on the wolf stuff but I will throw that into the tube. I bought a case of light clay rounds that I've been shooting and it doesn't bother me much to shoot until the end of the day. I will keep practicing with those and shoot a few of the buckshot. Appreciate the help and suggestions.

Edit: looked it up and found out it's about 1 1/8 oz with 9 pellets. Didn't realize it was normal not to have a weight on buckshot.

And you can find 1 oz easily with velocity only about 1180-1200 fps. That is a sweet load for screwing around and, as you say, won't bother you even after 200-250 rounds.

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 Post subject: Re: Difference in recoil between loads for very small guy
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:00 pm 
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I do not believe physical size has anything to do with sensitivity to recoil. I shot lots of target loads out of a pump 12 gauge. Sometimes a flat of shells in a day trap shooting when I was younger and smaller than I am now. As I have gotten older recoil bothers me more while target shooting than it does while hunting. Much of my hunting is done with heavier loads than my target shooting and with guns that have more recoil. When hunting, I very seldom feel the recoil. If you are shooting a home intruder, you wont feel any recoil.

When I sight in a slug gun or pattern a turkey gun, I like to put a foam cushion between the gun and my shoulder. You could do the same thing with your buck shot. If recoil is really bothering you, maybe think about getting a gas operated semi-auto shot gun or drop down to a 20 gauge.

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 Post subject: Re: Difference in recoil between loads for very small guy
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:12 pm 
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rpenmanparker wrote:
And you can find 1 oz easily with velocity only about 1180-1200 fps. That is a sweet load for screwing around and, as you say, won't bother you even after 200-250 rounds.


That was my next step if the regular 00 kicked too much. Which I don't think they will now based of what everyone has said. I've seen some low or managed recoil stuff. Those velocities should be perfect for what I need them for. Now if they would just get them in stock. :x

Noweil wrote:
I do not believe physical size has anything to do with sensitivity to recoil. I shot lots of target loads out of a pump 12 gauge. Sometimes a flat of shells in a day trap shooting when I was younger and smaller than I am now. As I have gotten older recoil bothers me more while target shooting than it does while hunting. Much of my hunting is done with heavier loads than my target shooting and with guns that have more recoil. When hunting, I very seldom feel the recoil. If you are shooting a home intruder, you wont feel any recoil.

When I sight in a slug gun or pattern a turkey gun, I like to put a foam cushion between the gun and my shoulder. You could do the same thing with your buck shot. Maybe think about getting a gas operated semi-auto shot gun. Maybe drop do to a 20 if really recoil sensitive.


I am starting to think the same thing. When I first got the shotgun some people said it was going to beat me up bad cause of my size and some said I would be fine. I should have just ignored them. Once I went and shot for the first time I found that I am not particularly sensitive to recoil. I got one of those limbsaver pads that replace your stock recoil pad. I haven't had a chance to shoot since getting it cause of everything going on the ranges are very busy. Where I live there aren't many good places to shoot outside either. Since I'm inexperienced I wasn't sure if 00 was going to be a much bigger kick or the same as what I was shooting. Even if it kicked a little harder I think I would be perfectly fine. I think a semi auto is a purchase I may make in the future. You guys are awesome thanks for the advice.


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 Post subject: Re: Difference in recoil between loads for very small guy
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:38 pm 
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Brad,

Managing recoil has a lot to do with gun fit and technique - technique meaning how the gun is mounted and how it is held.

I have seen some very small-statured individuals (men and women) manage heavy recoiling African game rifles without issue, while conversely I have seen some rather large fellows get beaten up by guns with lesser recoil.

The message is that with appropriate fit and technique, you can learn to manage the recoil of most 12 gauge loads.


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 Post subject: Re: Difference in recoil between loads for very small guy
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:20 pm 
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Malcolm7 wrote:
Brad,

Managing recoil has a lot to do with gun fit and technique - technique meaning how the gun is mounted and how it is held.

I have seen some very small-statured individuals (men and women) manage heavy recoiling African game rifles without issue, while conversely I have seen some rather large fellows get beaten up by guns with lesser recoil.

The message is that with appropriate fit and technique, you can learn to manage the recoil of most 12 gauge loads.


That's pretty reassuring to hear. Luckily I am quite "normal" sized in height and stuff, weight is my issue. So I think that the fit is okay. But I think it could be better, I was looking into the Magpul stock because you can adjust length of pull but it doesn't come for my shotgun nor do any real aftermarket things. Any suggestions for somehow shortening the stock? Or would I be better off buying an 870 or something similar that has more options for aftermarket stocks and stuff?


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 Post subject: Re: Difference in recoil between loads for very small guy
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:30 pm 
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If you ever run across an individual intent on doing you harm, and you manage to fire upon that person, I'll bet you a million you never feel the recoil of the shot.

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 Post subject: Re: Difference in recoil between loads for very small guy
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:31 am 
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Brad,

You previously mentioned that "the stock fits decently". If at the end of a day of shooting you have slight shoulder soreness but not other issues like cheek bruising, I would not be concerned nor would advise changing stocks.

One easy solution is to purchase a shooting vest with a padded shoulder insert - like the Browning Reactar - and use it when at the range.

It takes time - and practice - to develop a good gun mount, which is an important foundation skill for any shooting sport but especially for shotgun sports. There is a lot of information online about shotgun mount practice skills - which can be done at home (with an unloaded gun).

As many have stated you will not have time to think about recoil in an emergency, but practice with the gun using target loads is very important and builds familiarity and confidence.


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 Post subject: Re: Difference in recoil between loads for very small guy
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:53 pm 
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Oldfarmer wrote:
If you ever run across an individual intent on doing you harm, and you manage to fire upon that person, I'll bet you a million you never feel the recoil of the shot.


I bet your right :lol: I think the recoil would be the last thing on my mind. And I'm sure one or two shots would do it so I guess it's not something I have to worry about in that situation.


Malcolm7 wrote:
Brad,

You previously mentioned that "the stock fits decently". If at the end of a day of shooting you have slight shoulder soreness but not other issues like cheek bruising, I would not be concerned nor would advise changing stocks.

One easy solution is to purchase a shooting vest with a padded shoulder insert - like the Browning Reactar - and use it when at the range.

It takes time - and practice - to develop a good gun mount, which is an important foundation skill for any shooting sport but especially for shotgun sports. There is a lot of information online about shotgun mount practice skills - which can be done at home (with an unloaded gun).

As many have stated you will not have time to think about recoil in an emergency, but practice with the gun using target loads is very important and builds familiarity and confidence.


Yeah my cheeks are fine the only thing was the sore arm. It was sore for a day but after all the info you guys have given me it's probably from a bad mount. I did a lot of research on mounting and stuff and tried to get it in the pocket. I definitely had it in the wrong place a few times which I felt instantly. Good to know that my stock seems fine. I also bought some snap caps to practice mounting and dry firing and will have to work on it. I'm definitely going to look into that vest for long shooting sessions. I really enjoy shooting so anything to help me do that more is a good idea.


Thank again for the advice and responses I'm sure after getting some more practice and experience a lot of these questions and little problems will go away or get better.(edited)


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 Post subject: Re: Difference in recoil between loads for very small guy
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:51 am 
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This is some good advice you got here. Good shooting form & good gun fit pays big dividends. Minor stock adjustments are not hard to do but don't go whacking on your stock unless you are sure you know what to do. If you shoot clays, there must be somebody at the club that knows about stock fitting, & it may be fine as is. The only thing I would add is lighter loads not only reduce recoil, but they are fine for not only clays, but also for much of the hunting you might do. They can make shooting & getting use to your gun more comfortable. The standard 2 3/4", 12 ga. buckshot load of "OO" has 9 pellets which is approximately equivalent to the standard 1 1/4 oz. field load. The number of pellets vary with the buckshot sizes but all standard 12 ga. buckshot loads are close to 1 1/4 oz.. Magnum loads are heavier, of course.
Correction: 9 "OO" buck weigh closer to 1 1/8 oz.. The 12 pellet 2 3/4 oz. load comes in at close to 1 1/2 oz.. I assume this is because "OO" is usually stacked in layers of "3".




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