ShotGunWorld Shotguns

It is currently Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:47 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: My first shotgun: a Belgian "Guild Gun" SxS 12 ga.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:29 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:52 am
Posts: 13
I'm pretty much in love. I've taken it to the trap range three times already.

It's a 100-year-old+ Belgian "guild gun" that was sold by Félix Warnier in Paris sometime likely before WWI. It's in pretty great shape for its age and seems to have been well taken care of. It has a fairly heavily cast off stock, which works well for me, because I have a large head. I'm only using it at the range, so I'm sticking with low-power target loads to be on the safe side.

It has fluid steel barrels, 2 ¾" chambers and is nitro proofed. The case and cleaning kit are from Jeff's Outfitters in Cape Girardeau, MO, and seems to be of extremely high quality.

Image
Image
Image
Image




Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My first shotgun: a Belgian "Guild Gun" SxS 12 ga.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:49 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:03 pm
Posts: 4148
Location: Mid-Missouri
Nice looking gun.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My first shotgun: a Belgian "Guild Gun" SxS 12 ga.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:41 am 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2004 5:41 am
Posts: 16291
Location: Cadiz,Ky
Be advised---those "low powered" target loads are frequently as high pressure as a lot of hunting loads !

_________________
Liberals love America like a tick loves a hound.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My first shotgun: a Belgian "Guild Gun" SxS 12 ga.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:55 am 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:20 pm
Posts: 22681
Nice looking! And the proof marks say 70MM, not 65mm?

_________________
The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory, Aldo Gucci

Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience, George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My first shotgun: a Belgian "Guild Gun" SxS 12 ga.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:11 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:11 am
Posts: 4209
Location: Western Tampa, FL
oneounceload is subtly asking whether the gun is proofed for 2.5 or 2.75 inch chambers. You should verify that immediately, especially before doing anymore shooting.
That is very lovely gun, with way above average wood. You should be proud! I bet it handles beautifully and is an excellent field gun which is how it should be employed. Lots of cast off is quite beneficial to many right handed shooters. They discover that if they ever try a gun so stocked. It looks like someone added a proper new pad to it at some point; maybe redid the wood finish at that time because it is sure in fine condition. If you find it has 2 1/2 inch chambers, I would not be concerned as those length shells are readily available nowadays. Good luck!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My first shotgun: a Belgian "Guild Gun" SxS 12 ga.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:00 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:52 am
Posts: 13
oneounceload wrote:
Nice looking! And the proof marks say 70MM, not 65mm?


Yep. 70mm.

Image

Here's an explanation of the Belgian mark:

Image

It also has the nitro proof mark, so it's proofed for modern smokeless powder.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My first shotgun: a Belgian "Guild Gun" SxS 12 ga.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:08 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:52 am
Posts: 13
oyeme wrote:
oneounceload is subtly asking whether the gun is proofed for 2.5 or 2.75 inch chambers. You should verify that immediately, especially before doing anymore shooting.
That is very lovely gun, with way above average wood. You should be proud! I bet it handles beautifully and is an excellent field gun which is how it should be employed. Lots of cast off is quite beneficial to many right handed shooters. They discover that if they ever try a gun so stocked. It looks like someone added a proper new pad to it at some point; maybe redid the wood finish at that time because it is sure in fine condition. If you find it has 2 1/2 inch chambers, I would not be concerned as those length shells are readily available nowadays. Good luck!



Thanks, yes, it's a beauty. I've fired probably 150 rounds through it so far - a box at a time at the trap range. I'm still getting the hang of it, but I'm getting more accurate with every visit. It does handle beautifully and is a joy to shoot. I'll never afford a Purdey or H&H, so this is about as close as I'll get...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My first shotgun: a Belgian "Guild Gun" SxS 12 ga.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:18 am 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:20 pm
Posts: 22681
Great find...........have fun!

_________________
The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory, Aldo Gucci

Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience, George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My first shotgun: a Belgian "Guild Gun" SxS 12 ga.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:49 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:36 pm
Posts: 893
Location: Endless Mountains of PA
bscepter,

Great old Guild gun for sure, I would use RST or Poly SpredR's, this is a fine old Grouse & Woodcock double gun. Forget the line shooting with her and start doing some bird hunting.

Congrats on owning a fine old Grouse Guild Gun! A real nice find for sure.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

_________________
L.C. Smith Man
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers
Charlton Heston NRA Speakers Bureau Member
NRA Life Member/NRA Instructor


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My first shotgun: a Belgian "Guild Gun" SxS 12 ga.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:59 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:52 am
Posts: 13
Pine Creek/Dave wrote:
bscepter,

Congrats on owning a fine old Grouse Guild Gun! A real nice find for sure.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man


Thanks!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My first shotgun: a Belgian "Guild Gun" SxS 12 ga.
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 7:33 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:36 pm
Posts: 893
Location: Endless Mountains of PA
bscepter,

I also wanted to tell you how nice the stocks are on your Belgian 12 gauge Guild Gun. Beautiful wood on that old gun! That gun you do not give up.

_________________
L.C. Smith Man
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers
Charlton Heston NRA Speakers Bureau Member
NRA Life Member/NRA Instructor


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My first shotgun: a Belgian "Guild Gun" SxS 12 ga.
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 9:01 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:11 am
Posts: 4209
Location: Western Tampa, FL
You have no reason for thinking your gun is inferior to an H&H because they used many Birmingham box locks and put their name on them after final finish. I know because I had one.

How much does it weigh? If it is a true "game gun" it should go for around 6 lbs 8 ounces.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My first shotgun: a Belgian "Guild Gun" SxS 12 ga.
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 8:25 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:52 am
Posts: 13
oyeme wrote:
You have no reason for thinking your gun is inferior to an H&H because they used many Birmingham box locks and put their name on them after final finish. I know because I had one.

How much does it weigh? If it is a true "game gun" it should go for around 6 lbs 8 ounces.


That's funny - it literally weighs 6 lbs 8 ounces on the nose. And, thanks, I love it. H&H or no.

In fact, I weighed it because I made a Purdey-style label for it and needed to know its weight:

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My first shotgun: a Belgian "Guild Gun" SxS 12 ga.
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 7:47 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:11 am
Posts: 4209
Location: Western Tampa, FL
Just a bit of esoterica for your label from what I know, and I could be wrong. The type of specifics as you list were traditionally found about 30% of the time on a smaller label than the makers label, and it would be located in the bottom right hand corner inside of the lid. The makers label was centered in the inside lid and only had the makers info including address and any advertisement such as maker for HRH Muckedy Muck. BTW, contrary to popular opinion the makers labels were not usually leather, but actually just paper.

Brits labeled their chokes in that era on their lower right hand labels as 1/4, 1/2/, 3/4 and Full. That corresponded to approximately .010, .020, .030 and .040. Markings of 3/4 were rare. Any shot loads, chamber length and such was also on that right side label. The barrels themselves were simply marked "choke" or not marked. A barrel marked as "choke" simply meant that it had at least .008 constriction but could have far more. The barrel not marked was considered cylinder but actually may have had a bit of constriction as long as less than .008.

This is provided based on you wanting to do something like a Brit company would have provided. I have not looked at enough samples of the French or Belgium guns to be able to provide any information.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My first shotgun: a Belgian "Guild Gun" SxS 12 ga.
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 11:26 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:52 am
Posts: 13
oyeme wrote:
Just a bit of esoterica for your label from what I know, and I could be wrong. The type of specifics as you list were traditionally found about 30% of the time on a smaller label than the makers label, and it would be located in the bottom right hand corner inside of the lid. The makers label was centered in the inside lid and only had the makers info including address and any advertisement such as maker for HRH Muckedy Muck. BTW, contrary to popular opinion the makers labels were not usually leather, but actually just paper.

Brits labeled their chokes in that era on their lower right hand labels as 1/4, 1/2/, 3/4 and Full. That corresponded to approximately .010, .020, .030 and .040. Markings of 3/4 were rare. Any shot loads, chamber length and such was also on that right side label. The barrels themselves were simply marked "choke" or not marked. A barrel marked as "choke" simply meant that it had at least .008 constriction but could have far more. The barrel not marked was considered cylinder but actually may have had a bit of constriction as long as less than .008.

This is provided based on you wanting to do something like a Brit company would have provided. I have not looked at enough samples of the French or Belgium guns to be able to provide any information.



Thanks for the info. I was sort of just messing around, really. I based the label on a Purdey one like this I found online.

Image

I ended up placing mine to the left of the makers label, like this:

Image

Here's mine. Again, I know it's not correct; I just wanted to have the feel of a vintage case.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My first shotgun: a Belgian "Guild Gun" SxS 12 ga.
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 11:43 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:11 am
Posts: 4209
Location: Western Tampa, FL
It is your "design" and therefore appropriate. It looks good. Enjoy.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My first shotgun: a Belgian "Guild Gun" SxS 12 ga.
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:02 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:52 am
Posts: 13
oyeme wrote:
It is your "design" and therefore appropriate. It looks good. Enjoy.


Well, I see now that it's probably the shotgun equivalent of putting an AMG badge on a Honda, but as I said, I was really just goofing around and trying to give the case a vintage feel to match the gun itself.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My first shotgun: a Belgian "Guild Gun" SxS 12 ga.
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 3:55 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:10 am
Posts: 187
Beautiful.




Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: bcraig, bensonortho, BigDeeeeeeee, Bing [Bot], clayaddiction, claybuster145, dtingey, Gadwall, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], LitzerSki, map17, md2020, mikeydio, NailNinja, Rack-N-Roy, rickeroo, Rooster booster, Schnurb, shacked, SuperXOne, Ypm968, zxcvbnm


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group    - DMCA Notice