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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder choke for pheasant?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:32 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:32 am
Posts: 55
I'm shooting heavy shot or steel through skeet chokes in both barrels. The dogs needs to finish them about half the time. It seems to work great for me. One bird, one shot, if it gets away then it was divine intervention for it.




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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder choke for pheasant?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:55 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 9293
Location: Louisiana
How's it working great if the dog has to finish off half of the birds? I'd rather use a little more choke and kill more of them outright.


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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder choke for pheasant?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:07 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:50 pm
Posts: 2570
Location: SE Ohio...where ruffed grouse were
papershell wrote:
I'm shooting heavy shot or steel through skeet chokes in both barrels. The dogs needs to finish them about half the time. It seems to work great for me. One bird, one shot, if it gets away then it was divine intervention for it.



Wounded birds happen, as do wounded and lost birds or birds we have to finish at hand.
My guess tho is that either shot or chokes are not at the center of many such issues with your bird recovery...at least, it is not so for most of us, imo.

Consider pursuing a wiser definition of "great" re scattergunning a game bird and divine intervention will be left to far more important tasks....it's the most we can do.


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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder choke for pheasant?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:20 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:45 pm
Posts: 63
Location: Oswego, ks
I have never used cylinder choke for pheasants but for several years I killed many each year with my 20ga Rem 1100 with an IC and 1oz loads of 6's. Then used an O/U 2oga with IC/ Mod until I returned to 16ga guns, usually my Rem M11 with the polychoke set on IC but a quick twist to Mod when I got in to open fields or mu Win M12 that was opened up to Lt. Mod from the original Full.

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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder choke for pheasant?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 12:20 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:27 pm
Posts: 92
Location: SE North Dakota
Rereading Datus Proper’s “Pheasants of the mind”. Worth a reread every year.
His choice in arms was a 16ga sxs double trigger choked improved cylinder and full.

And it works. Pound the close birds quick and still handle the long wild flush.


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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder choke for pheasant?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:57 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:17 pm
Posts: 17
This is my second year pheasant hunting, the dog has really come in to his own this season. I have learned this-

Whatever choke or ammunition you have, it's the wrong choice most of the time!

We hunt stocked running birds in heavily hunted public lands. Mostly my Labrador's job is to get in to impossibly thick stream bed tangles underbrush, somehow get that bird in the air. Maybe a third of the time this presents a shot of any kind, and then the dog finds his bird in other impossibly tangled brush. Somehow he thinks this is the best game ever and is very good at bring back crippled birds (which are regrettable). The dead ones are not even a challenge for him. Full choke might be a bit much, but that's what I have been using.

Last week we were strolling through prairie grass to get to some tangles that looked promising and three flushed right under foot, one of them went down like a sack of hockey pucks and I was regretting hitting it so close with full choke. I immediately thought "this one is for the soup pot."

I am using Herter's 1 1/4 no.5 1220 fps lead loads. As my Ithaca Model 37 is from 1945, that's about correct for the period. I learned that sometimes the pattern is your friend as well as foe- breasts were completely spared.

The dog said I needed to get a new shotgun, because putting adjustable chokes on that gun seems wrong to me although it deserves a better recoil pad than the hard rubber plate c. 1945. My wife was commenting on how some of my shoulder bruises were now yellow and green...

I just got a Fabarms L4s Hunter and a couple boxes of Fiocci Golden Pheasant for it. I need to pattern my new gun but went out with the Modified choke tube as a default.

Since I have a new gun I am itching to light off, of course the dog finds something sharp somewhere deep in the brush and we had to go for five stitches and the vet says "no hunting for two weeks." The gods know when you have a new gun or a freshly washed car.

My opinion is Open choke will work best when the flush right underfoot, which is a rare case for me but it does happen. If I was carrying and open choke, I'd bee looking at long range birds for weeks. The gods know.

Until I can pattern, I am going to use Modified. Then I will go to the range and do some patterns at 50 yards (club reasons) . I have a number 2, 5 and a number 9 choke. I expect I will decide I want a no. 7 because... that's just how things go- the gods know what you don't have and that's what you need. Just like you can never go to the hardware store just once in a day- there will always be something you forgot, something you break, or something that I bought that is the wrong size.

If anyone has experience with an L4s, golden pheasant and long range pheasants, your opinion is desired, too!


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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder choke for pheasant?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:18 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:54 pm
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You have no idea how your gun shoots with a given ammunition and choke until you pattern the combination. Do it, then consider the distances that you will likely be shooting and then make your decision on a choke.

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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder choke for pheasant?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 2:36 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:36 pm
Posts: 1004
Location: Endless Mountains of PA
cas,

Good advise!

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder choke for pheasant?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 6:03 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:17 pm
Posts: 17
I took the opportunity to do some basic patterning yesterday although due to rules at my club under the Covid, I opted to pattern with the actual shells I am using but at an unfortunate required 50 yard. I verified that 50 yards is a LONG way and out of respect for the bird, I would not shoot that far, even with full choke.

I am trying the No.5 Fiocci Golden Pheasant 1 3/8 oz 1485 fps in the new gun (L4s). It's significantly MORE BOOM. My new gun has a soft recoil pad vs. hard plastic plate, gas operated semi auto rather than pump, and the six ounce weight gain over my Model 37 must help too. Shooting to point of aim, both #5 and #9 chokes had even patterns but holes large enough in the pattern to verify that 50 yards is indeed farther than I would care to shoot out of respect for the bird. As a second or third shot on a hit bird, I would do that as a bad hit was already committed.

Surprising to me was how evenly the Herters 1 1/4 1220 fps ammo patterned from both my guns. It was really quite good and from the new gun it was very light on the shoulder, while about as much as I care to feed my vintage 1946 pump gun. I also learned that if I can tell the difference between my "full" choke vintage Ithaca and my #5 (modified) choke Fabarms, it will take a lot more shooting and averaging at 40 yards.

I really enjoyed a day I got out with the dog with the stated goal of "Just going for a walk and we are only going to shoot at very high percentage easy shots." I let a few birds go, the dog got treats and I felt good just watching the bird in flight. Then one flushed right under foot at a time I could get a nice smooth swing and... easy peasy, down it went. Dog had fun getting it out of impossibly thick underbrush so everyone went home happy. As I gain the experience to just let a bird go.. sure, open choke if that's what you have. 7/8 oz loads? Sure, with the experience of knowing when to pass on a shot. I am not quite there yet, but learning!

Having reloaded for pistol, rifle and shotgun... I am scratching my head at how Fiocci can make a 1 3/8 oz load go 1485 fps in a 2 3/4" shell. I am assuming they know something about the new powders that have come out in the past 20 some years.


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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder choke for pheasant?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:29 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:54 pm
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Location: Kansas
How far did the L4S eject those baby magnums?

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"We pulled the trigger, the safety went forward, both barrels fired almost together, the gun opened, ejectors kicked the fired cases over our shoulder ...the most completely automatic gun we ever fired" Elmer Keith- Shotguns by Keith


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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder choke for pheasant?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:36 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:25 pm
Posts: 27
Your choke choice should depend on the distance you expect to shoot the bird at. If your pheasant are flushing in grouse type conditions with a flushing dog, cylinder or skeet may be appropriate.
You can shoot a pointed birds with and open choke or let the bird get further out and use a tighter choke.
If you practice a lot, a tight choke will be good in most circumstances. If not, an open choke might be better but limit yourself to close shots.


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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder choke for pheasant?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:14 pm 
Shotgun Expert
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Location: Plainfield, IL
StinkeyPete wrote:
I am trying the No.5 Fiocci Golden Pheasant 1 3/8 oz 1485 fps in the new gun (L4s).


That is a pathetically poor shell: one of the worst I've ever patterned. Use Winchester Rooster XR 1-1/4 oz. #5 or Remington Nitro Pheasant 1-1/4 #5 and prepare to be amazed.

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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder choke for pheasant?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:29 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:36 pm
Posts: 1004
Location: Endless Mountains of PA
Randy,

I find this has a lot to due with the gun and how it is choked. The Golden Pheasant #5's pattern pretty well out of my L.C. Smith #5 and my Pigeon Grade gun also. Both were set up for shooting Pigeons long ago. Now I have to admit the Rem Nitro Pheasant patterned even better, but not that much to say the Fiocchi GF shells were sub standard in their patterns. I have not used the Winchester RXR #5's to give you an opinion on their patterning from my Smith guns. When I use to roll my own 12 Gauge shells I made better patterning shells than all these off the shelf shells, I rolled #6's and #5's using the Green Rem hulls & WindJammer Wads and they really put the Pheasants down quite well.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

_________________
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Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers
Charlton Heston NRA Speakers Bureau Member
NRA Life Member/NRA Instructor


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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder choke for pheasant?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:34 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:03 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Central South Dakota
My pheasant hunting experience, which is substantial, is that most people use too much shell and too much choke for the job at hand.

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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder choke for pheasant?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:02 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:22 pm
Posts: 353
Location: NE South Dakota
I can wait for the bird to get out further when shooting a full choke and having them flush underfoot.

It’s pretty hard to do the opposite.

But it all depends on how and where you are hunting. Wild birds late season even with dogs flush pretty far out. Stock birds sometimes you have to kick them to get them to fly.


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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder choke for pheasant?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:55 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:03 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Central South Dakota
Huh...that's funny. I shot wild birds, all weekend, over dogs, at ranges from 10 -30 yards. YMMV I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder choke for pheasant?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:10 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:22 pm
Posts: 353
Location: NE South Dakota
BrettK wrote:
Huh...that's funny. I shot wild birds, all weekend, over dogs, at ranges from 10 -30 yards. YMMV I guess.


A lot depends on conditions, cover as well, working the wind if it’s windy helps too.


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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder choke for pheasant?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:11 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:56 am
Posts: 341
Why bother? shadey48 says pheasant is tough. :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder choke for pheasant?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:03 am 
Shotgun Expert
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Location: Plainfield, IL
southdakbearfan wrote:
I can wait for the bird to get out further when shooting a full choke and having them flush underfoot.

It’s pretty hard to do the opposite.


It is all a compromise. A wild pheasant with its head down pumping its wings flying away from you gives you a kill zone smaller than your closed fist. Having a pattern that is too tight isn't the problem.



For an easier angling shot, just shoot them in the head . . . head and neck area.



Choke markings don't mean anything specific until they are matched with a specific shell. Winchester Rooster XR's with a "MOD" choke pattern denser than poor loads with "Full" chokes.

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Last edited by RandyWakeman on Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder choke for pheasant?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:58 am 
Diamond Grade
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Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:58 am
Posts: 1895
Location: Omaha, NE
RandyWakeman wrote:
StinkeyPete wrote:
I am trying the No.5 Fiocci Golden Pheasant 1 3/8 oz 1485 fps in the new gun (L4s).


That is a pathetically poor shell: one of the worst I've ever patterned. Use Winchester Rooster XR 1-1/4 oz. #5 or Remington Nitro Pheasant 1-1/4 #5 and prepare to be amazed.


Funny you say that! I have a box of those that I bought because I like the package and wanted it on my shelf with other upland memorabilia. No intention of using the shells.



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