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 Post subject: Any info on Halwa Sandor shotguns?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:45 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:26 pm
Posts: 7
Picking up a nice old 16 gauge Hungarian double by Halwa Sandor, it was an impulse buy because I liked the style and wanted a shooter. Proofed in 1929, uses Bohler Blitz Stahl barrel tubes. The only reference I can find is for him making Mauser style rifles and a double rifle on a receiver of identical form to the shotgun I purchased. Any info would be appreciated, if there is any to be had.

Link to the gun I bought, it does have a few things I see that will need attention.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/904817879


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 Post subject: Re: Any info on Sandor Halva shotguns?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:40 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:24 pm
Posts: 1196
Location: North Alabama
Sandor Halwa or Halva (1882-1939) was a well know Puskaműves(Gunsmith) in Budapest. I guess Jozsef Kirner was my favourite there. I see the preliminary datastring on the lower rib, but odd that there isn't a final pass one? I can't really see all the marks, but they point to an origin in Ferlach, Austria. So Sandor Halva placed an order in Ferlach for a scattergun that a client ordered. Too, sideclips / Purdey wings are a sign of a quality / beefed up longarm. I guess is possible that Sandor Halva ordered a longarm >>in the white<< from Ferlach, then finished it himself or one of his mechanics?

Serbus,

Raimey
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 Post subject: Re: Any info on Halwa Sandor shotguns?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:42 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:51 pm
Posts: 10984
Location: Phoenixville PA
16 ga. firearms of that vintage have 65 mm (2 1/2") chambers. Just be aware of that fact.

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 Post subject: Re: Any info on Sandor Halva shotguns?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:59 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:24 pm
Posts: 1196
Location: North Alabama
True, it may have 65mm chambers but with the addition of the sideclips, the probability may lie with 70mm chambers. Since the final pass marks are not present, I cannot say but I would measure to the forcing cone.

Better images of the tube marks might ferret out the dims.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse


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 Post subject: Re: Any info on Halva Sándor Puskaműves shotguns?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:57 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:24 pm
Posts: 1196
Location: North Alabama
Forced translation of
Mesterem mestere Halva Sándor

http://www.vadaszpuskamuves.hu/mesterei ... lva-sandor


>>During my long, more than six-decade-long hunt, I have come to mind many times and personally contacted my acquaintances, gun masters, with whose help one of my shotguns or bullets, which had deteriorated during use, became usable. Their names and blessed activities should not be forgotten by those who have re-enchanted their favorite rifles for our famous hunters and writers.

I start with someone I only knew from the news, but I hunted with a cocky shotgun. He is none other than the world-famous Master Kirner. Others I knew well were employees of the famous Halva company who worked in the Zugliget workshop and made me a cockroach 28 shotgun. It was a real masterpiece, a wonderfully barrel rifle. My dear friend Gyula Görcsös was the "great master" of the same company . He was an excellent, popular hunter. I met many times with him, in the workshop of Szent János tér, the famous African hunter Zsiga Széchenyi, who was constantly carrying his weapons in need of repair.

When I was young, I went to the bar shop on Baross Street a lot for gunpowder and Italian-origin 12-inch sleeves. Ferenc Knébl was the owner and master of the shop. Not far from him was the shop in Károlyi Garden, the workshop of Uncle Vili Hoffbauer, where I spent many, many hours and got a 12x9.3 74 R Merkel mixed-barreled rifle and a 12 Merkel real pigeon shotgun.

Uncle Vili raised a young boy as his successor, his so-called adopted son, Attila Kubinyi , who still occasionally fixes his friends' spoiled pet. We hunted a lot together in the Sár hunting area of ​​Fejér county. Unfortunately, due to his deteriorating condition, I can only hear from him these days.

In addition to them, I must mention another rifleman close to me, whose business was in what is now Moscow Square. He was at that time the gun master of the passionate hunter, Comrade Rákosi, who took part in all his hunts ex officio. His shop had amassed a crowd of shotguns then involved. They were wonderfully great among them. For my part, Uncle Pista’s store is also because I bought a double-ball (8x60 R, 8x60 R Magnum) Merkel drilling from him with a 12-tube lower tube. Unfortunately, he went to the eternal hunting grounds soon enough and his business was run by his wife, Aunt Kati, for a long time, and then the business ceased unexpectedly.

In Pest, at 5 Petőfi Sándor Street, in the yard, there was a gun shop I visited many times, two of them ran, I remember the Sövényházi brothers well. The store is memorable to me when I bought my first double-barreled, cockroach shotgun, the left barrel of which was sixteen, and the right barrel of which was already drilled on a spit expressing a four hundred and fifty lead core reminiscent of the past. I also fired 1 of it, i.e. a piece of ammunition. The roe deer I was targeting (standing at 70 meters) left healthy because the little finger-thick projectile hit it in front of it, or three feet away.

I can’t keep quiet about the gun shop I discovered in 1947, in a wonderful way. He had all his machine tools and equipment and I found them in one of the side streets of Pesterzsébet. The master of the time treated the pair of KIRNER and HALVA shotguns I had picked up from one of the rubbish holes and the "basque", ie block, found for it. From these incomplete pieces, an impeccable weapon was assembled there. I was notified by phone today that a gun shop called "GEMENC" that was also advertised in the paper was not their successor, as I thought.

I had a personal relationship with each of the ones listed, but where have they been since then? Somewhere in the celestial weapons workshops, the weapons of our "great old men" who are already hunting there are being repaired. Among those still living but not working, I cannot miss the former "column" of Diana on Wesselényi Street, Károly Kiss, Mr. Németh, Géza Cser and my dear friend, my former young hunting student, Ferit Tarnay. Why did we forget them? I almost forgot about one of the best known and highly knowledgeable gunsmiths, Uncle Bakonyi (Bruzil), who had his shop on Dob Street, he had many, many brands - Defurnié, Merkel, Fabric Nationale - rifles available. But he renewed many, many wonderful shotguns, to the great delight of their master. Medium height, no longer young, approx. He was a 50-60 year old man, always hanging in the corner of his mouth is essential, huge pipe smoking smoke. When I bet, it was always his first question - "kid, what have you been up to again?"

But whatever mistake I made - a spring break, a pipe dent - I always came out of trouble. I bless her memory while I live, I will think of her and others with love. I think I am not alone and we undeservedly ignore high-level practitioners of a profession who are part of our domestic hunting culture today. Their memory should be preserved forever by the profession. They are invaluable, they were real artists in European industry. It would be good if their legacies and relics could be included as a public treasure in one of the hunting museums.

In my boredom, I put these lines on paper in my time, to see if there was an editor who, out of grace, would place a place in his paper among the many, many advertisements for this as well. / Makai Gyula /

Source: Hungarian Hunting Magazine June 2001<<

Serbus,

Raimey
rse


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 Post subject: Re: Any info on Halwa Sándor Puskaműves shotguns?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 8:00 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:24 pm
Posts: 1196
Location: North Alabama
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1943 Advert. So some mechanic, or his wife, continued the business to @ least WWII.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse


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 Post subject: Re: Any info on Halwa Sándor Puskaműves shotguns?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 8:21 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:24 pm
Posts: 1196
Location: North Alabama
If you Google >> Halwa Sándor Puskaműves << of Budapest, it will net you several adverts but one has to subscribe which might take a bit of time to muddle thru one of the world's most unique & odd languages just to obtain the advert images.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse


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 Post subject: Any info on Halwa Sandor shotguns?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:33 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:26 pm
Posts: 7
BobK wrote:
16 ga. firearms of that vintage have 65 mm (2 1/2") chambers. Just be aware of that fact.
Yes, the 65mm chambers are no problem, that is one of my preferred chamberings. I hunt with very few modern shotguns outside of waterfowl. I am expecting 65mm chambers and a very short forcing cone. The photos are not very clear for many of the proofs, and I could not see the watertable at all. I just have a soft spot for 16 and 28 gauge guns with a pistol grip and cheek piece. Thanks ellenbr for the info on the company!


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 Post subject: Re: Any info on Halwa Sandor shotguns?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:04 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:16 pm
Posts: 3766
Location: New England
.

Welcome to SGW, MM ! ! {hs#

Pretty nice grab - me likey… :)

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 Post subject: Re: Any info on Halwa Sandor shotguns?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:41 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:26 pm
Posts: 7
CriscoKid wrote:
.

Welcome to SGW, MM ! ! {hs#

Pretty nice grab - me likey… :)
Thanks, I probably overpaid a bit, but I couldn’t resist. I did get the seller down $240 from his original price, so that was nice. Hopefully it patterns out well and will be put to pheasant and grouse use this year!


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 Post subject: Re: Any info on Halwa Sandor shotguns?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:47 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:54 am
Posts: 227
Very nice gun! Great price, I would imagine better made than the 4000.00 Italian offerings of today.




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