ShotGunWorld Shotguns

It is currently Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:23 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Image



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: J Stevens Model 250 hammer sxs 12ga
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:35 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:17 pm
Posts: 8
Greetings all, looking for some basic info
on a SxS i purchased, serial # is 652..all matching
Under the barrel lump is the #3.... There is what
Resembles a canadian broad arrow similar to markings ive seen on enfield rifles??

Im more than happy to email pictures or text
To a cell phone. My email is [email protected] .

The gun is in pretty decent cond. Still tight. And hammer springs tight, i believe its full/full in the choke dept. I have fired 2 3/4. 1 1/8 oz loads through
It and standard load buckshot with no issues...
My question is maybe yr of manufacture? And what
The # 3 and that broad arrow mark may indicate.?
As well it utilizes the rotary locking bolt through the
Dolls head and a pivot style hook into the reciever.
A very heavy gun but very enjoyable to shoot..patterns
Extremely well.

Any help id surely appreciate!.. Thanks so much.

Cheers..

Rod..




Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: J Stevens Model 250 hammer sxs 12ga
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:27 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:03 pm
Posts: 4548
Location: Mid-Missouri
Beast_of_the_east78 wrote:
The gun is in pretty decent cond. Still tight. And hammer springs tight, i believe its full/full in the choke dept. I have fired 2 3/4. 1 1/8 oz loads through
It and standard load buckshot with no issues... . . .



If you want to continue to enjoy shooting this gun, you might want to look into buying appropriate ammo. RST offers a whole line of 2-1/2" shells with pressure levels that are similar to ammo that would have been common when your gun was made:

http://www.rstshells.com/store/m/2-12-Gauge.aspx?pi=2


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: J Stevens Model 250 hammer sxs 12ga
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:09 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 11:49 am
Posts: 5501
Location: Southwest Georgia, USA
Check out https://www.proxibid.com/Firearms-Military-Artifacts/Firearms/J-Stevens-A-amp-T-Co-Model-250-SXS-12-Ga-Hammer/lotInformation/50363978


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: J Stevens Model 250 hammer sxs 12ga
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:23 am 
Diamond Grade
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:35 pm
Posts: 1971
Location: AZ (heart in KS)
Researcher has provided a Steven hammer gun tutorial here, but unfortunately the images have been lost
https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto ... 5&t=313536

This is the No. 250 listing in Catalog No. 50 c. 1900

Image

Note the barrels are fluid steel and the gun is "adapted for any standard make of shell"

The “standard” U.S. 12 gauge Field and Inanimate Target load was 1 1/4 oz. shot with 3 1/4 Dram Equivalent (1220 fps) of Bulk (DuPont, “E.C.”, “Schultze”) Smokeless in a 2 5/8” or 2 3/4” case, with a modern transducer pressure of 8000 - 9500 psi.

Bad things happen to guns over 120 years of use, and the gun should be evaluated by a double gun specialist with special attention of the barrel integrity and wall thickness, and the head of the stock for cracks. If the gun checks out, it would be wise to limit your shells to standard target loads.

_________________
http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl ... m/www/home

Richard Baxter (1615-1691), Directions Against Covetousness
"Be more careful to use what you have, than to get more."

Kingsley Brown "Shoot more, shop less."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: J Stevens Model 250 hammer sxs 12ga
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:58 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:17 pm
Posts: 8
Appreciate info, gun works great
However this one has a diff rib extension.
No top bite....but has slot " squared"
For a rotating bolt...wad told these may be german
Krupp steel barrels apparently safe for modern
Lead shot std loadings and bismuth loadings
For maybe pond hunting duck. I plan on using it
For rabbit/grouse gun


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: J Stevens Model 250 hammer sxs 12ga
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:26 am 
Diamond Grade
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:35 pm
Posts: 1971
Location: AZ (heart in KS)
You have a hammer No. 265 - very nice and uncommon
The hammerless with Krupp steel was the earlier and high grade No. 385, and the later No. 280, that had the Stevens demi-bloc construction

Image

"Apparently safe" and reasonably established to be safe by an examination with a bore scope and wall thickness gauge, by someone with the interest and expertise to properly do so, are very different issues.

_________________
http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl ... m/www/home

Richard Baxter (1615-1691), Directions Against Covetousness
"Be more careful to use what you have, than to get more."

Kingsley Brown "Shoot more, shop less."


Last edited by Drew Hause on Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: J Stevens Model 250 hammer sxs 12ga
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:30 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:12 am
Posts: 5114
Location: WA/AK
It seems with every new Catalog J. Stevens Arms & Tool Co. made changes to their sidelock hammer doubles. Here are some of the catalog pages.

Catalog No. 51 --

Image

Image

Catalog No. 52 --

Image

Image

Catalog No. 52 (Revised Edition) --

Image

Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: J Stevens Model 250 hammer sxs 12ga
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:20 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:16 pm
Posts: 3766
Location: New England
Beast_of_the_east78 wrote:
I have fired 2 3/4. 1 1/8 oz loads through It and standard load buckshot with no issues...
.



Beside the safe-to-fire issues espoused above, keep in mind that all shotshell producers upgraded their ammo in 1926, leading most shotgun makers to either upgrade their guns or discontinue them in favor of a new/better model.

While you might not have had any issues so far, Rod, shooting ANY modern ammo in a ca.1900's gun will eventually lead to a catastrophic failure - sooner or later.

Provided your gun will pass muster with a doublegun specialist gunsmith (not some AR parts-changer calling themselves a gunsmith), it would be wise to use only special/low-pressure ammo available from the likes of RST, et al.

.

_________________
["CriscoKid", alias: Fat in the Can]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: J Stevens Model 250 hammer sxs 12ga
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:14 pm 
Diamond Grade
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:35 pm
Posts: 1971
Location: AZ (heart in KS)
"shooting ANY modern ammo in a ca.1900's gun will eventually lead to a catastrophic failure - sooner or later."

What is your evidence that Krupp steel is an inferior and intrinsically dangerous barrel steel Crisco?

Sadly uninformed, and proven to be incorrect by those of us who are using vintage doubles, after an appropriate evaluation, with loads which ballistically reproduce those for which the guns were designed, and by the Birmingham Proof House, which routinely proves vintage guns today
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1F2s ... FU/preview
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dnR ... tPYVA/edit

The short version of the documents is that turn-of-the-century loads had similar pressures to today's loads. The Western Super-X loads introduced in 1922 are also discussed.

_________________
http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl ... m/www/home

Richard Baxter (1615-1691), Directions Against Covetousness
"Be more careful to use what you have, than to get more."

Kingsley Brown "Shoot more, shop less."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: J Stevens Model 250 hammer sxs 12ga
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:41 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:17 pm
Posts: 8
Thanks again, just nice to have the gun
Still functioning and solid...i trust it
Is a solid built gun...i dont shoot high pressure
Loads in it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: J Stevens Model 250 hammer sxs 12ga
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:03 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:12 am
Posts: 5114
Location: WA/AK
No one can tell you over the internet what ammunition may or may not be safe in a given gun.

The heaviest 12-gauge loads our North American ammunition companies were offering by the first decade of the 20th Century were 3 1/2 drams of bulk smokeless powder or 28 grains of dense smokeless powder pushing 1 1/4 ounce of shot.

Image

Image

These loads are actually a bit above current SAMMI specs for pressure.

When "modern" progressive burning smokeless powder, high velocity, loads, Western Cartridge Co.'s Super-X leading the way, came out circa 1922, they moved that 1 1/4 ounce of shot in 12-gauge out at a higher velocity but lower pressures than the old bulk or dense specified loads.

Image

In 16- and 20-gauge they even upped the payload 1/8 ounce from the previously heaviest offered 1 and 7/8 ounce to 1 1/8 and 1 ounce. These higher velocities and heavier payloads increased recoil forces on delicate wood.

Those Twist and Damascus warnings on shot shell boxes became prevalent during the Great Depression, IMO a desperate industry attempt to sell new guns.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: J Stevens Model 250 hammer sxs 12ga
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:40 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:12 am
Posts: 5114
Location: WA/AK
Quote:
keep in mind that all shotshell producers upgraded their ammo in 1926, leading most shotgun makers to either upgrade their guns or discontinue them in favor of a new/better model.


Huh????

Winchester continued to make the Model 12 and 97. Winchester did begin chambering their Model 12 20-gauge guns for 2 3/4 inch shells about that time, but that was more in response for the drubbing it got in E.C. Crossman's book in favor of the Remington Model 17 that was made for 2 3/4 inch shells from the get go. While the other three three big ammunition makers put out their progressive burning powder high velocity 20-gauge 1 ounce load in 2 3/4 inch shells, Winchester also stuffed theirs into a 2 1/2 inch shell for their older 20-gauge Model 12s.

Image

Image

Remington continued to make the the Model 11, 10 and 17, all of which were made for 2 3/4 inch shells from their introduction.

J. Stevens Arms Co. continued all of their pumps and doubles, though they did streamline the No. 520 J.M. Browning designed pump as the No. 620 while the No. 520 moved to their lower priced Riverside/Springfield Arms Co. line.

Parker Bros., A.H. Fox Gun Co., Hunter Arms Co. lines remained they same.

Ithaca Gun Co. did change from their Flues Model, which had frame cracking issues, to the NID, but their Lefever Nitro Special was actually made a bit lighter with a shorter frame.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: J Stevens Model 250 hammer sxs 12ga
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:03 pm 
Diamond Grade
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:35 pm
Posts: 1971
Location: AZ (heart in KS)
I'll help Crisco out :)

In 1922, Western Cartridge Co. introduced the 12g 'Super-X Field' 2 3/4 inch 1 1/4 oz. 3 3/4 dram equiv. (1330 fps) shell. The Peters Cartridge Company's 'High Velocity', United States Cartridge's 'Ajax Heavies Long-Range', and Remington's Kleanbore 'Nitro Express Extra Long Range' loads followed in 1923. Western's 3 inch 'Record' with 1 3/8 oz. of shot was released in 1923; U.S. Cartridge Co. 'Climax Heavies' in 1927.

However, because of the use of DuPont "Oval", a progressive burning powder, the pressures of these heavier loads was NOT greater than the previous "standard" loads, esp. those using Dense Smokeless like Ballistite.

In response, Hunter Arms introduced the Long Range Wild Fowl, first advertised in 1923, but the Hunter Arms records show that one was made in 1921 and an Eagle Grade Long Range in 1922. Only 14 were made in 1923. The Super Fox HE was also introduced in 1923. The Ithaca NID Magnum 12 was introduced in 1932.

SO new models were introduced, but as Researcher made clear, nothing changed with the previous offerings from Hunter Arms, Parker Bros., Ithaca, et al.

Very few shotguns had Decarbonized Steel barrels into the 1920s; by then most had AISI 1040 or alloy steels.

_________________
http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl ... m/www/home

Richard Baxter (1615-1691), Directions Against Covetousness
"Be more careful to use what you have, than to get more."

Kingsley Brown "Shoot more, shop less."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: J Stevens Model 250 hammer sxs 12ga
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:17 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:12 am
Posts: 5114
Location: WA/AK
Quote:
The Ithaca NID Magnum 12 was introduced in 1932.


The Magnum-10 was introduced in Ithaca Gun Co.'s second 1932 catalog, along with Western Cartridge Co.'s introduction of the 3 1/2 inch Magnum-10 shell. While they may well have made some, the Magnum-12 wasn't listed in Ithaca catalogs until 1937, when the NID Super-10 was dropped.

Quote:
Remington's Kleanbore 'Nitro Express Extra Long Range' loads followed in 1923.


No. No. No. Remington introduced their Heavy Duck Load in 1923 --

Image

The Heavy Duck Load in their "Game Loads" line evolved into the Nitro Express --

Image

Image

KLEANBORE priming was introduced into Remington's shotgun shells in .410-bore in 1931 and the gauges in 1932.

Image

By 1934 they were into the one-piece box and the DuPont logo was added --

Image

After WW-II the Nitro Express emerged as the Remington Express in the red & green boxes.




Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: 1958jr, Bing [Bot], birdhunter39, craven_blue, Dammerung, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Google Feedfetcher, John Henry, Majestic-12 [Bot], mikeydio, msta999, Rooster booster, Skeet_Man, Ssanders224, SuperXOne


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group    - DMCA Notice