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 Post subject: Tobin Arms double barrel 7365
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:13 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:00 pm
Posts: 1
I have a Tobin Arms double barrel serial number 7365. I understand they only made 11080 in Norwich Ct from 1903-1911. It is in such good condition I didn't even realize it could be that old. Any idea where I can find out what it's worth and if I should shoot it with modern 12guage shells. I got it 12-15 years ago, it is clean, I oil it and clean it twice a yr even though I have only shot 1 12guage flare out of it.




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 Post subject: Re: Tobin Arms double barrel 7365
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:46 pm 
Diamond Grade
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:35 pm
Posts: 1870
Location: AZ (heart in KS)
Researcher is the Tobin expert, and should be along. Here's some infro
http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/22641451
No one but a double gun spam smith can tell you if the gun is in good working order and safe to shoot, with light loads only.

_________________
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Richard Baxter (1615-1691), Directions Against Covetousness
"Be more careful to use what you have, than to get more."

Kingsley Brown "Shoot more, shop less."


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 Post subject: Re: Tobin Arms double barrel 7365
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:46 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:37 pm
Posts: 1000
If it is the basic, plain Tobin it is not worth much, at least not in Canada. I just bought a pretty nice one 3 days ago for $300.00 which included shipping. If it is a highly engraved gun, then it will be worth more. I would stick with low pressure loads only from Polywad or RST. That's if it is safe to shoot.


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 Post subject: Re: Tobin Arms double barrel 7365
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:08 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:16 pm
Posts: 3524
Location: New England
Tobin started in 1905 in Norwich, Connecticut, USA, producing side-by-side and double-barrel shotguns in various grades.
The company moved to Woodstock, Ontario, Canada in 1909 or 1910, making guns there until about 1925, before shutting down.
Tobin also made a single-shot .22 RF bolt-action boy's rifle.

The Tobin Simplex SxS was produced in a variety of grades, and with options of either automatic ejectors or a single-selective trigger, or both.
On the highest grade internal parts were gold-plated, and ejectors or the single-selective trigger were each extra $$.

The lower grade guns used Trojan Nitro Steel barrels, the middle grades Fluid Steel Krupp Essen barrels, and the highest grades offered the choice of Fluid Steel Krupp Essen or DeMoya Fluid Steel.

The Norwich guns were: the Standard #20, Expert #30, Featherweight #40, Premium #45, Trap #21, Special Pigeon #50, Model #55, and Model #60.

The Canadian guns were: the Leader #25 hammer gun, Standard #40, Black Diamond #55, Trap #70, Pigeon #100, Model #200, and the Regal #250.

There are Tobin collectors out there - who value them dearly, indeed - especially in excellent condition.

.

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["CriscoKid", alias: Fat in the Can]


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 Post subject: Re: Tobin Arms double barrel 7365
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:42 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:12 am
Posts: 5012
Location: WA/AK
Tobin Arms Manufacturing Company operated in Norwich, Conn., from 1904 to 1909. Tobin Arms MAnufacturing Co., Ltd., incorporated in Woodstock, Ontario, Canada, on August 9, 1909. The overlap in serial numbers runs from the 9xxx into the low 11xxx range, with the highest Norwich gun I've recorded 11094 and the lowest Woodstock in the 9xxx range. Tobin Arms Manufacturing Co. Ltd. advertising continued in sporting magazines into 1916, but by then at least part of the factory in Woodstock had been taken over by Arnold Thompson Tool Co. for war production for the Great War. TAMC wasn't listed in the Woodstock city directories after 1916. By the time the Great War was over, Frank Tobin had other interests and the company charter was surrendered in 1921. Gladstone Blake Crandall, a local gunsmith, who had worked in the Tobin factory acquired the remains, and billed himself as "Successor to Tobin Arms". Crandall remained in operation until 1950 or 51, but I believe he was more noted for his single shot varmint rifles, than the Tobin doubles he assembled/finished. He was prolific in publishing catalogues, as I have three different Crandall catalogues of Tobin shotguns. His serial numbers seem to run in the high 18xxx and low 19xxx range.

The old factory building in Woodstock when I visited in September 1994 --

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A page from a Crandall catalogue --

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Value depends on condition, originality, condition, gauge, condition, barrel length, condition, grade, condition, options (ejectors and/or single selective trigger), and condition. We need to see several good pictures to even begin to make a guess.

Here is one for sale on Guns International --

http://www.gunsinternational.com/Tobin- ... =100216404


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 Post subject: Re: Tobin Arms double barrel 7365
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:58 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:37 pm
Posts: 1000
Here's a few pics of the Tobin I just picked up that cost $270.00 with shipping removed. Most of what the flash makes look like rust on the sideplates is old case coloring. The bores are perfect, the action is tight , crisp checkering and no cracks. I am actually surprised at how slender this gun appears and feels. Not at all clumsy like I was expecting.
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Tobin Arms double barrel 7365
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:22 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:12 am
Posts: 5012
Location: WA/AK
I've seen that engraving pattern before, but it is not pictured in any of the Tobin catalogues I own or have seen. Then, probably half the Tobin doubles I've recorded don't match the catalogue pictures?!? I would expect that gun to have a serial number more in the 17xxx range than the 7xxx range? This gun is 17713 --

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 Post subject: Re: Tobin Arms double barrel 7365
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:23 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:37 pm
Posts: 1000
Serial number on mine is 187xx


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 Post subject: Re: Tobin Arms double barrel 7365
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:22 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:14 pm
Posts: 1
Do you still have the Tobin arms shot gun . I might be interested in it. The only reason is my last name is Tobin. I would simply hang it in my bar on the wall. I would not shoot it.


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 Post subject: Re: Tobin Arms double barrel 7365
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:57 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:37 pm
Posts: 1000
tobinhouse wrote:
Do you still have the Tobin arms shot gun . I might be interested in it. The only reason is my last name is Tobin. I would simply hang it in my bar on the wall. I would not shoot it.

Are you talking to me or Researcher or Erik? I still have mine but it's not for sale, plus I am in Canada. I do know a fellow who may have a wall hanger Tobin, but again he is in Canada and it wouldn't be worth it to get it to the US if that's where you are.


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 Post subject: Re: Tobin Arms double barrel 7365
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:45 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:30 pm
Posts: 125
Location: Florida
I have one that is SN.2550. A plain jane field gun.Exterior is in nice shape but someone reblued it some time during it's 100 plus years. Still locks up tight and functions perfectly. Unfourtunately the inside of the barrels are so badly pitted I would never try shooting a 12 gauge shell through it, low power or otherwise. I bought a set of 28 gauge Briley companion tubes for it and it just crushes the clays. A bit heavy though for a 28 at 7.5 lbs! Tobinhouse, I would enteratain selling it minus the tubes as a wallhanger for the right price. PM me and we'll talk.


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 Post subject: Re: Tobin Arms double barrel 7365
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:07 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:00 pm
Posts: 1
tobinhouse wrote:
Do you still have the Tobin arms shot gun . I might be interested in it. The only reason is my last name is Tobin. I would simply hang it in my bar on the wall. I would not shoot it.

Yes I have one that I would be willing to sell.


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 Post subject: Re: Tobin Arms double barrel 7365
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:27 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:13 pm
Posts: 3
I recently purchased one and the serial number is 1788x. It has the number 3 stamped on the bottom. They're is no model or anything else stamped on it besides Tobin Arms Woodstock Ontario and no engravings. Can anyone guess the year it was made by the serial number?


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 Post subject: Re: Tobin Arms double barrel 7365
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:07 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:12 am
Posts: 5012
Location: WA/AK
From my table of observed examples, I'd estimate that your gun is from the last year of factory production, late 1915 early 1916. Does it have the barrel lug through the bottom of the frame? Some late guns don't. The only gun I've recorded in the 18xxx range was a G.B. Crandall produced gun.


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 Post subject: Re: Tobin Arms double barrel 7365
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:17 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:13 pm
Posts: 3
Thank you so much for the information. I'm not sure what you mean by barrel lug. Between the barrels on top it has a notched ridge and underneath it is smooth. I'm surprised the bore, chamber and model aren't stamped anywhere?


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 Post subject: Re: Tobin Arms double barrel 7365
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:56 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:51 pm
Posts: 10928
Location: Phoenixville PA
ErikK - make sure you have the chamber length checked. Most guns of that era have 2 1/2" or 2 9/16" chambers. But a few manufacturers made them in lengths of shells common tody.

The Tobin was a decent and modern gun for its day.

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 Post subject: Re: Tobin Arms double barrel 7365
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:55 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:12 am
Posts: 5012
Location: WA/AK
Most Tobin guns were built with a rectangular hole through the bottom of the receiver --

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that an extended portion of the bottom of the barrel lug engaged --

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Some late factory guns and many assembled by G.B. Crandall don't have this feature --

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Three of my 12-gauge Norwich produced Tobins have 2 3/4 inch chambers, and the other four have 2 5/8 inch chambers. My one Woodstock produced Tobin, a No. 70E Trap Grade has 3-inch chambers.

This has been my canned shotgun shell length answer for some time --

Paper Shotshell Lengths

In reviewing old Union Metallic Cartridge Co. catalogues and price lists, the first time I see mention of extra length paper shotshells is in the 1889 catalogue, before they were offering any smokeless powder shells. Smokeless powder begins appearing in the 1891 catalogue. After the introduction of smokeless powder loads the first catalogue I’ve found to offer longer paper shells is 1895 where they offer 10-gauge shells in 2 5/8 and 2 7/8 inch lengths, 12-gauge shells in 2 5/8 or 2 3/4 inch lengths, while 16-gauge is just 2 9/16 inch and 20-gauge just 2 1/2 inch. In the September 1896 catalogue they offer 12-gauge paper "Smokeless" shell in lengths up to 3-inch. All brass 10- and 12-gauge NPEs were offered up to 3 1/4 inch length. By the April 1899 UMC Catalogue things are really taking off and they've added 2 3/4 and 2 7/8 inch lengths to both 16- and 20-gauge offerings, and the 3 1/4 inch 12-gauge length in their "Trap" shell. By the May 1900 UMC catalogue the 3-inch 16- and 20-gauge length is being offered in their salmon colored "Smokeless" shell and their green colored "Trap" shell.

That pretty much covers paper shotshell lengths and when they appeared. So, by 1900 we had paper 12-gauge shells in 2 5/8, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, 3 and 3 1/4 inch lengths; 16-gauge shells in 2 9/16, 2 3/4, 2 7/8 and 3-inch lengths; and 20-gauge shells in 2 1/2, 2 3/4, 2 7/8 and 3-inch lengths.

From the 1890s into the early 1920s, these longer shotshells didn't carry a heavier payload than one could get in a 2 3/4 inch 12-gauge shell, just more/better wadding, which many serious Pigeon shooters believed to be an advantage. The maximum smokeless powder loads offered in the 2 5/8 inch 12-gauge shell and the 2 1/2 inch 20-gauge shell were a bit lighter than those offered in 2 ¾ inch and longer shells.

As to the guns not being marked as to gauge or chamber length, it seems that back in those pre WW-I days, shotgun purchasers were assumed to know what they were doing and what ammunition was suitable for their gun. We don't see Parker Bros., Ansley H. Fox, etc. guns of that era marked as to gauge and chamber length either.


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 Post subject: Re: Tobin Arms double barrel 7365
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:15 pm 
Tournament Grade
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Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:05 am
Posts: 283
Location: Ontario, Canada
Back when I owned a Tobin, I got in touch with this fellow, who had some interesting info to offer:
http://www.members.shaw.ca/sharptail/Tobin.html


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 Post subject: Re: Tobin Arms double barrel 7365
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:13 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:13 pm
Posts: 3
My gun has that feature. There is a number 3 stamped in front of it. How do you remove the hinged barrel like that?


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 Post subject: Re: Tobin Arms double barrel 7365
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:41 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:12 am
Posts: 5012
Location: WA/AK
On guns with a plain extractor the forearm just snaps off and on. With the forearm off the barrels will swing off the receiver.

On guns with automatic ejectors, there is a roller latch in the forearm to release it from the barrels --

Image




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