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 Post subject: What did I just buy? Suspecting semi-modern British(?) sxs
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:37 pm
Posts: 9
Hello! Let me start by saying I am by no means a shotgun expert, so I come to you all hoping you can identify a side-by-side I very recently purchased at auction. It seems to be of very fine quality but I know little about how you judge such things. The auction company was short on information about it. Below is all they were able to provide-

"28" Blued, Vent Ribbed Barrel w/ Scrolling, Beavertail Checkered Fore End & Pistol Grip, Monte Carlo Comb, Scrolled Frame, Double Sidelock Trigger, Extractors , 1-1/4"Comb, 2" Face, 3"Heel, 13-7/8"LOP, Choked 1/2 & 1/2"

The designation of "1/2" chokes makes me think maybe it's British. The actual markings on the barrel seem to be "1.H" and the "steel choke" marking makes me assume it had to have been made relatively recently. It has a serial number and a second number (import number?) but nothing I can find in the way of a maker or proof mark. Any information you all can provide would be greatly appreciated! The attached pictures are from the auction, but I do have the shotgun in my possession so I can post any additional pictures that might be helpful. I'd plan to take it out for pheasant this year but would feel better if I knew what it was before I did anything with it!

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 Post subject: Re: What did I just buy? Suspecting semi-modern British(?)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:30 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:37 pm
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 Post subject: Re: What did I just buy? Suspecting semi-modern British(?)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:01 pm 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:03 pm
Posts: 4051
Location: Mid-Missouri
The auction company omitted the one photo that would allow people to help you. Once you get the gun, take a close-up photo of the markings on the underside of the barrel (the barrel flats) and post that. That will tell the tale.


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 Post subject: Re: What did I just buy? Suspecting semi-modern British(?)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:18 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:37 pm
Posts: 9
I have the shotgun here! The flats are frustratingly void of markings as well, unless I'm looking at the wrong thing.

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 Post subject: Re: What did I just buy? Suspecting semi-modern British(?)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:27 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:37 pm
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A better picture

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 Post subject: Re: What did I just buy? Suspecting semi-modern British(?)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:40 pm 
*Proud to be a*
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Location: Mid-Missouri
stk wrote:
I have the shotgun here! The flats are frustratingly void of markings as well, unless I'm looking at the wrong thing . . .




Hmmm, you're right. There's not much there. I admit, I'm way beyond my knowledge base here. Hopefully, somebody will come along who can provide answers.


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 Post subject: Re: What did I just buy? Suspecting semi-modern British(?)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:36 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:51 pm
Posts: 10875
Location: Phoenixville PA
There are no "proof marks" present in the usual places to show proof and country of origin, or even if the firearm has been proof tested.

_________________
BobK


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 Post subject: Re: What did I just buy? Suspecting semi-modern British(?)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:46 am 
*Proud to be a*
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Location: Mid-Missouri
BobK wrote:
There are no "proof marks" present in the usual places to show proof and country of origin, or even if the firearm has been proof tested.



Turkish?
Early Japanese?


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 Post subject: Re: What did I just buy? Suspecting semi-modern British(?)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:52 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:24 pm
Posts: 1096
Location: North Alabama
Definitely not British w/ the Germanic style stock. Odd lock geometry & retaining pin placement. I too would lean toward old Japanese with Kasuga in mind or maybe

Shugo Hamada of Hamada & Son Ltd. might have some insight?

Anything on the buttplate?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse


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 Post subject: Re: What did I just buy? Suspecting semi-modern British(?)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:55 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:24 pm
Posts: 1096
Location: North Alabama
Too the tubeset looks to be composed of chopper lump tubes?

If you ever have the locks pulled, I would greatly like to see the components.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse


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 Post subject: Re: What did I just buy? Suspecting semi-modern British(?)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:57 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:24 pm
Posts: 1096
Location: North Alabama
Maybe by Matsui Gun Shop of Tokyo? Just a wild guess for now. I don't think it originated @ the KFC/Miroku/Hibiki(Kawaguchiya-Hibiki-Miroku) facility, but who knows.


Cheers,

Raimey
rse


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 Post subject: Re: What did I just buy? Suspecting semi-modern British(?)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:39 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:51 pm
Posts: 10875
Location: Phoenixville PA
The "1.H" markings do NOT necessarily stand for 1/2 choke, if that is where you got the 1/2 choke impression. In fact, the "CHOKE" marking alone usually stands for full choke, but I don't think that was meant.

Measurement of the bore diameters and the muzzle diameter would be required to be sure of the chokes.

An attractive looking 7 pin sidekick, but lots of questions remain.

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 Post subject: Re: What did I just buy? Suspecting semi-modern British(?)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:21 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:24 pm
Posts: 1096
Location: North Alabama
Exactly. We need an additional piece to the puzzle.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse


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 Post subject: Re: What did I just buy? Suspecting semi-modern British(?)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:26 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:24 pm
Posts: 1096
Location: North Alabama
Again, it is an odd lock shape, unique pin configuration & unusual lockplate retaining position.

I just realized it has 2(two) floorplate screws so it must be a fake sidelock????

Cheers,

Raimey
rse


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 Post subject: Re: What did I just buy? Suspecting semi-modern British(?)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:28 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:24 pm
Posts: 1096
Location: North Alabama
It may be an Anson & Deeley Body Action w/ overhanging scears and that would explain the position of the lockplate retaining screw?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse


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 Post subject: Re: What did I just buy? Suspecting semi-modern British(?)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:51 pm 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:26 pm
Posts: 3404
ellenbr wrote:
Again, it is an odd lock shape, unique pin configuration & unusual lockplate retaining position.

I just realized it has 2(two) floorplate screws so it must be a fake sidelock????

Cheers,

Raimey
rse




Rather than being stocked to the fences, the gun's sideplates are fitted to the frame similar to a sidelock actioned Merkel 147SL, however, this gun is lacking the sidellock tumbler axles through the sideplates `a la the Anson & Deeley actioned V. Bernardelli Roma series SxS. So, we have an A&D action with attractive dummy sideplates. The "STEEL" marking on the watertable and barrel flats indicate modern construction to accommodate steel shot. The third bite is neither a true Greener nor a Purdey, but resembles a Stevens/Savage. Well finished with chopper lump barrels and nice engraving. I can't I.D. the I.H on the barrel flats and frame. Is it a date code or a maker's mark for Hibiki perhaps?

I believe Raimey has nailed it as Japanese but, which Japanese maker?

DF

Montani Semper Liberi


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 Post subject: Re: What did I just buy? Suspecting semi-modern British(?)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:37 pm
Posts: 9
Gentlemen,

I’m watching the thread eagerly! Thanks for all of the info you’ve already provided, though it’s provenance still remains very much a mystery. If anyone resides near Great Falls, Montana (or knows of an expert who does) I’d be happy to let you have a look in person.


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 Post subject: Re: What did I just buy? Suspecting semi-modern British(?)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:11 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:37 pm
Posts: 9
To the earlier question-there are no markings on the butt of the stock.


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 Post subject: Re: What did I just buy? Suspecting semi-modern British(?)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:46 am 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:03 pm
Posts: 4051
Location: Mid-Missouri
stk wrote:
To the earlier question-there are no markings on the butt of the stock.



And no brand name or importer markings anywhere on the barrels?


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 Post subject: Re: What did I just buy? Suspecting semi-modern British(?)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:28 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:37 pm
Posts: 9
No




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