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 Post subject: Mint WW Greener dropped in my lap today
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:05 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:13 am
Posts: 6
A friend of mine brought me this shotgun today that his grandmother’s deceased boyfriend left her. She was going to take it to the police. It happens to be a mint condition per 40s (we believe) WW Greener side by side 12 G. I don’t think this thing has been fired maybe more than a few times. It’s perfect. I’m a WWII gun collector and don’t know much about these guns (unless it’s a Luftwaffe drilling). Can someone help me with identification and value. SN is 390. Pictures attached.




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 Post subject: Re: Mint WW Greener dropped in my lap today
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:03 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:09 pm
Posts: 21
Photos aren’t coming through. SN is 390? That would be a very early Greener. Many Greener guns have the model number on the bottom tang just after the serial number - eg. D13, Fh35, G60. Lots of expertise on this site if you can provide some more information and photos.


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 Post subject: Re: Mint WW Greener dropped in my lap today
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:55 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:13 am
Posts: 6
Apologies, I was trying to do this from my phone in my office. here are much better pictures.


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 Post subject: Re: Mint WW Greener dropped in my lap today
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:57 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:13 am
Posts: 6
more pics


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 Post subject: Re: Mint WW Greener dropped in my lap today
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:17 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:13 am
Posts: 6
More pics. Your help is appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: Mint WW Greener dropped in my lap today
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:57 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:09 pm
Posts: 21
Well, you have a nice example of a W. Uhlig gun. A German gunmaker from the early part of the 20th century - gone by the late 1920s - there’s not a lot of info I can find about the marque. There is a thread in the archives here on Shotgun World.

The proof marks are all German and the horn trigger guard gives it away as Germanic. Manufactured when it was, it would have been short chambered originally. The stock design is quite unusual. Yours retains significant blue, case color and wood finish, indicating little use, though an inspection by a gunsmith specializing in side by side shotguns would be prudent.

You might ask questions on the German Gun Collectors website - http://www.germanguns.com . The knowledge there is amazing, and the members are quite willing to share information.

BTW: W. W. Greener was quite a self promoter, emblazoning his name wherever prudent as well as his trademark elephant on barrels. Your gun uses quite a number of Greener designs, the German makers embraced many of them heavily.


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 Post subject: Re: Mint WW Greener dropped in my lap today
PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:14 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:11 am
Posts: 4424
Location: Western Tampa, FL
Cool old gun. Good thing that did not go to the police!


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 Post subject: Re: Mint WW Greener dropped in my lap today
PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:13 am 
Tournament Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:55 pm
Posts: 123
Location: Småland
Hello

Walther Uhlig, Halle an der Saale. Successor of Richard Schröder. I don't see a date code marking so it passed through the Suhl proof house sometime between April 1912 and September 1923.

The circled marking is a possible trade mark and may point to the maker.

Circled gauge marking. Chambers are not shorter than 65 mm, and likely not longer.

Kind regards
Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Mint WW Greener dropped in my lap today
PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:43 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:24 pm
Posts: 1121
Location: North Alabama
It is a Kerner-Anson Body Action from 1912-say the end of WWI when the >>Nitro<< Stamp migrated to the barrel flats. It wears sideclips(Purdey Wings) as well as 1/2 pipe side frame reinforcement. Interesting Crown atop the top lever. Too boot, a unique stock, if original. Is there a cheekpiece on either side? Anything on the buttplate? Any marks forward of the flats up to & around the forend hanger?

Indeed the monogram on the standing breech would point to the actual maker but I don't recognize it right off but the letters would be something akin to H und G like Halbe & Gerlich but I believe they were pretty much firearms merchants & their tradename as HalGer/Halger. Now the letters could be G und H or G & H. I'll have to dig a bit.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse


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 Post subject: Re: Mint WW Greener dropped in my lap today
PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:38 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:24 pm
Posts: 1121
Location: North Alabama
With a loupe, can you confirm if the monogram on the standing breech is >>HuC<< or >>HuG<<???

If >>HuC<< it could be a generic H und Compagnie or H & Co.??

Serbus,

Raimey
rse


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 Post subject: Re: Mint WW Greener dropped in my lap today
PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:05 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:03 pm
Posts: 4300
Location: Mid-Missouri
Northyuma wrote:
A friend of mine brought me this shotgun today that his grandmother’s deceased boyfriend left her . . .


Some days, the heavens part and the angels smile upon you. You must be living right.


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 Post subject: Re: Mint WW Greener dropped in my lap today
PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:37 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:13 am
Posts: 6
This is all fantastic information. I will bring the gun back home with me tomorrow form the office and any of you folks are welcome to facetime me to take a better look at the gun then if you like. I'll get some more pics as well. It came with a cleaning kit and cartridge pouch, all period as well. The case is in excellent shape too.


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 Post subject: Re: Mint WW Greener dropped in my lap today
PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:21 pm 
Tournament Grade
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Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:55 pm
Posts: 123
Location: Småland
Hello

For what it's worth. An ad from 1922 claims the Walther Uhlig business was founded in 1830. The time frame obviously includes the time Richard Schröder was active and possibly someone before him. One source gives that the Schröder establishment was taken over by Walther and Max Uhlig.

EDIT: forgot, the crown might point to a baron, BUT, I would consult someone more knowledgeable. If I were you I'd follow Tom Bryant's advice and post over att the GGCA forum.

Kind regards
Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Mint WW Greener dropped in my lap today
PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:46 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:13 am
Posts: 6
Attachment:
breach stamp 2.PNG
Close up of stamp on breach. I believe it’s an H and a C.


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 Post subject: Re: Mint WW Greener dropped in my lap today
PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:19 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:18 am
Posts: 41
Just a beautiful old gun. Wow! I know nothing about it but it pleases my eyes. I will keep an eye on this thread for more info. So cool.


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 Post subject: Re: Mint WW Greener dropped in my lap today
PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:13 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:24 pm
Posts: 1121
Location: North Alabama
I have it on good authority that the crown on the toplever denotes that of a standard baron(Freiherr).


Serbus,

Raimey
rse


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 Post subject: Re: Mint WW Greener dropped in my lap today
PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:39 pm 
Tournament Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:55 pm
Posts: 123
Location: Småland
Hello

It was the Schröder business that set out in 1830. Schröder peddled Teschner and Dreyse wares. When Walther and Max Uhlig took over they both went by the title Kaufmann.

1919 was the last year Walther Uhlig was owner of the business. The two following years an Anna Uhlig was owner. In 1922 Richard Steinmeitz took over. A 1929 ad claims that the establishment sold J. P. Sauer & Sohn and Gebrüder Merkel wares. The Walther Uhlig business was still around in 1946, owner Richard Steinmetz. Sometime soon after 1946-47 the business ceased.

Kind regards
Peter




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