Help identifying 12 ga double barrel

jabelcher23 · **Joined:** Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:27 pm **Posts:** 3

My buddy bought a 12 ga hammerless double barrel over the weekend and I'm having trouble trying to identify it. There's no makers marks or proof marks anywhere except for the serial and some patent dates on the action that isn't turning anything up when I search for it. The butt-plate looks to have been replaced and an ape with a hammer went to town on the rear action pin. Here's the imgur link with an album: https://imgur.com/gallery/FYcsAcY

The guy he bought it from said it's Belgian, but I'm not seeing any signs of that anywhere.

ellenbr · **Posted:** Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:24 pm

Can you pleasure us w/ an image or 2 of the breech end and a few more side-shots of the mechanism on the tubeset?

Martin Bye, of Worcester, Mass for Sullivan Forehand, found protection under Nr. US441395A, No. 441,395. Patented Nov. 25, 1890. Not sure if the stamped date is 1890 or 1899?

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

ellenbr · **Posted:** Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:33 pm

Martin Bye also had a novel advancement for breech-loaders that found protection under No. 535,528, Patented Mar. 12, 1895. The date seems to fit but I do not see that the longarm wears typical ejectors for now?? Maybe that Martin Bye was just touting his protections on the water-table?

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

ellenbr · **Posted:** Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:35 pm

Any Martin Bye fans or followers out there?

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

jabelcher23 · **Joined:** Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:27 pm **Posts:** 3

He sent me some new pictures. https://imgur.com/gallery/L4GXoFN

ellenbr · **Posted:** Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:48 am

Now I am just guessing and although it looks similar, I've never seen one.

I was hoping Dr. Hause or Researcher recognized it & had info....

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

ellenbr · **Posted:** Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:49 am

https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto ... 5&t=481508

>>About all I can add is that the two patent dates are for Martin Bye Patents No. 441,395 (Nov. 25, 1890) and 535,528 (Mar. 12, 1895).<<

Here is a thread on one that wears the same patent dates.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

ellenbr · **Posted:** Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:54 am

So the other patent protection date is March 12th, 1895 for 535,528

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

EuroMan · **Joined:** Sun May 17, 2009 11:43 am **Posts:** 406

HOPKINS & ALLEN. The 01 stamp on the frame is the model or catalog number.

Researcher01 · **Posted:** Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:52 pm

The guns started out as Forehand & Wadsworth, then Forehand Arms Co. and shortly after the turn of the century were take over by Hopkins & Allen.

jabelcher23 · **Joined:** Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:27 pm **Posts:** 3

You guys are wizards. I appreciate the help.

ellenbr · **Posted:** Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:12 pm

So were the wares of Forrehand & Wadsworth, Hopkins & Allen,etc., indeed the brainchild of Martin Bye?

Serbus

Raimey
rse

UnknownShotgunGuy · **Joined:** Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:54 pm **Posts:** 19

It is a Hopkins and Allen no. 0112. Every single one that I have handled has had 2 5/8 chambers instead of 2 3/4. The hammer pin on your friends was replaced and had the ends crudely peened over to prevent it from working out. The barrels are made of Bessemer process decarbonized steel, and are not as strong as modern gun steel. They were intended for early smokeless loads that developed around 8000-9000 PSI. I have, however, seen one that was a main skeet gun and survived thousands of modern 2 3/4 target shells. But that in no way guarantees that your friends shotgun will. Shooting modern shells in it is a dangerous game

Help identifying 12 ga double barrel

Who is online